On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 06:28:48 -0800, D1039 wrote:

On Dec 28, 2:18Â*pm, Denis McMahon wrote:
On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 03:11:34 -0800, furnessvale wrote:
Indeed! Â*Now all we need is government prepared to bring the law on
scrap metal out of the days of Dickens and into the 21st century and
courts prepared to believe the offence is worth more than the
miniscule scrap value the thief gets........but don't hold your
breath.

Maybe it's about time BT and Network Rail started taking civil actions
against the thieves and the scrapyards for the consequential costs
caused by their actions.

A civil judgement for the compensation costs incurred by NR for a 6
hour shutdown on the ECML would probably be enough to close the
scrapyard that paid for the signalling cable involved.

Consequential losses are seldom recoverable in civil actions, as being
too remote.

Perhaps legislation should address this?

Compensation costs are contractual penalties between NR and TOCs and are
irrecoverable in tort from a third party

Ditto.

Or make the punishment fit the crime, and connect anyone convicted of
involvement in cable theft to a suitable cable. 11Kv would be good.

Rgds

Denis McMahon

On 28/12/2011 17:01, furnessvale wrote:
On Dec 28, 4:36 pm, Bevan wrote:

I would suggest that the law needs to be changed so that cable thieves
can be charged with "sabotage& endangering safety of rail passe ngers",
rather than theft, with severe minimum penalties specified by law, such
that some namby-pamby do-gooder could not reduce to a token level of
sentence. Dodgy scrap dealers should also face similarly severe charges
& penalties.

Bevan

No need for that. Theft carries a maximum penalty of 7 years,
handling even more. When did you see anyone, let alone these scroats,
get anywhere near these sorts of tariff.

As another poster said, the real beef is with the guidlines and the
dickhead who makes them.

George


I would like to see more creative use of charging like happens in the
USA. If there are a series of thefts then charge them with them all and
give them consecutive sentences. Add trespassing on railway property,
endangering passengers and not having a dog licence each with
consecutive sentences. In the UK they seem to chose one specimen charge
often not the most serious one then of course seven years means they
will only serve about three years. The newspapers play along with the
legal system with headlines like "metal thieves get twenty years" which
when you read them actually mean perhaps five people got sentences of up
to five years so will serve two years.

On 28 Dec 2011 23:14:17 GMT, Denis McMahon
wrote:

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 06:28:48 -0800, D1039 wrote:

On Dec 28, 2:18*pm, Denis McMahon wrote:
On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 03:11:34 -0800, furnessvale wrote:
Indeed! *Now all we need is government prepared to bring the law on
scrap metal out of the days of Dickens and into the 21st century and
courts prepared to believe the offence is worth more than the
miniscule scrap value the thief gets........but don't hold your
breath.

Maybe it's about time BT and Network Rail started taking civil actions
against the thieves and the scrapyards for the consequential costs
caused by their actions.

A civil judgement for the compensation costs incurred by NR for a 6
hour shutdown on the ECML would probably be enough to close the
scrapyard that paid for the signalling cable involved.

Consequential losses are seldom recoverable in civil actions, as being
too remote.

Perhaps legislation should address this?

Unlikely. If anything the current lot wants to crack down on the
"compensation culture". In any case, once you become the victim of a
victim etc. it becomes increasingly hard to apportion all the blame on
the other end of the chain ("all the local buses were up Glen Faeces
that day so it isn't all our fault anyway"). In many cases it will be
a good bet that even if an action was successful then there would not
be sufficient assets to be seized to cover the claim.

Compensation costs are contractual penalties between NR and TOCs and are
irrecoverable in tort from a third party

Ditto.

Or make the punishment fit the crime, and connect anyone convicted of
involvement in cable theft to a suitable cable. 11Kv would be good.

Rgds

Denis McMahon

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 00:55:19 +0000, MB wrote:

On 28/12/2011 17:01, furnessvale wrote:
On Dec 28, 4:36 pm, Bevan wrote:

I would suggest that the law needs to be changed so that cable thieves
can be charged with "sabotage& endangering safety of rail passe ngers",
rather than theft, with severe minimum penalties specified by law, such
that some namby-pamby do-gooder could not reduce to a token level of
sentence. Dodgy scrap dealers should also face similarly severe charges
& penalties.

Bevan

No need for that. Theft carries a maximum penalty of 7 years,
handling even more. When did you see anyone, let alone these scroats,
get anywhere near these sorts of tariff.

As another poster said, the real beef is with the guidlines and the
dickhead who makes them.

George


I would like to see more creative use of charging like happens in the
USA. If there are a series of thefts then charge them with them all and
give them consecutive sentences. Add trespassing on railway property,
endangering passengers and not having a dog licence each with
consecutive sentences. In the UK they seem to chose one specimen charge
often not the most serious one then of course seven years means they
will only serve about three years. The newspapers play along with the
legal system with headlines like "metal thieves get twenty years" which
when you read them actually mean perhaps five people got sentences of up
to five years so will serve two years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-16352524

--
Frank Erskine

"Bevan Price" wrote in message
...
On 28/12/2011 17:01, furnessvale wrote:
On Dec 28, 4:36 pm, Bevan wrote:

I would suggest that the law needs to be changed so that cable thieves
can be charged with "sabotage& endangering safety of rail passengers",
rather than theft, with severe minimum penalties specified by law, such
that some namby-pamby do-gooder could not reduce to a token level of
sentence. Dodgy scrap dealers should also face similarly severe charges
& penalties.

Bevan

No need for that. Theft carries a maximum penalty of 7 years,
handling even more. When did you see anyone, let alone these scroats,
get anywhere near these sorts of tariff.

Theft of raiway cable can result in the death penalty for the perpetrators.
)

--
Ian1

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 06:30:47 -0800 (PST)
D1039 wrote:
Home secretary wants to boot out some asylum seeker who's commited murder=
? No
chance , because Sir Justice I'm-all-right-jack-in-my-country-retreat
****wit-Smyth will be along any minute to overturn it on appeal and pat
himself on the back at what a good little liberal he's been.

B2003

Remembering of course that the judiciary follow sentancing guidelines,
their deliberations on which are published and are subject to appeal
(inckuding in cases of leniency)

I suspect your beef is with the guidelines

There are no guidelines for that sort of thing and besides which there's a
world of difference between guidelines and rules. The judges just love to
take the human rights act to the extreme just to stick it to the politicians.
If these worthy fossils want the power of elected office they should stand
for it though I suspect they realise that no one would vote for them in a
million years so they try and aquire power through the back door.

B2003

On Dec 29, 10:07*am, "Ian" wrote:
"Bevan Price" wrote in message

...

On 28/12/2011 17:01, furnessvale wrote:
On Dec 28, 4:36 pm, Bevan *wrote:

I would suggest that the law needs to be changed so that cable thieves
can be charged with "sabotage& *endangering safety of rail passengers",
rather than theft, with severe minimum penalties specified by law, such
that some namby-pamby do-gooder could not reduce to a token level of
sentence. Dodgy scrap dealers should also face similarly severe charges
& *penalties.

Bevan

No need for that. *Theft carries a maximum penalty of 7 years,
handling even more. *When did you see anyone, let alone these scroats,
get anywhere near these sorts of tariff.

Theft of raiway cable can result in the death penalty for the perpetrators.
)

--
Ian1

IMO not nearly often enough (cue the bleeding hearts).

George

There are no guidelines for that sort of thing and besides which there's a
world of difference between guidelines and rules. The judges just love to
take the human rights act to the extreme just to stick it to the politicians.
If these worthy fossils want the power of elected office they should stand
for it though I suspect they realise that no one would vote for them in a
million years so they try and aquire power through the back door.

B2003

You write complete rubbish but if you think your views are
representative I think you should find a bigger audience and try
getting into elective politics.
But please do not pollute the atmosphere around here with your inane
opinions.

On 29/12/2011 11:08, JJ wrote:


There are no guidelines for that sort of thing and besides which there's a
world of difference between guidelines and rules. The judges just love to
take the human rights act to the extreme just to stick it to the politicians.
If these worthy fossils want the power of elected office they should stand
for it though I suspect they realise that no one would vote for them in a
million years so they try and aquire power through the back door.

B2003

You write complete rubbish but if you think your views are
representative I think you should find a bigger audience and try
getting into elective politics.
But please do not pollute the atmosphere around here with your inane
opinions.

Said the judge...

--
Moving things in still pictures

On Dec 29, 10:07*am, "Ian" wrote:
"Bevan Price" wrote in message

...

On 28/12/2011 17:01, furnessvale wrote:
On Dec 28, 4:36 pm, Bevan *wrote:

I would suggest that the law needs to be changed so that cable thieves
can be charged with "sabotage& *endangering safety of rail passengers",
rather than theft, with severe minimum penalties specified by law, such
that some namby-pamby do-gooder could not reduce to a token level of
sentence. Dodgy scrap dealers should also face similarly severe charges
& *penalties.

Bevan

No need for that. *Theft carries a maximum penalty of 7 years,
handling even more. *When did you see anyone, let alone these scroats,
get anywhere near these sorts of tariff.

Theft of raiway cable can result in the death penalty for the perpetrators.
)

--
Ian1

Yes - the great thing - which just about demonstrates the level of
intelligence of the pickey scrotes - is that some are electrocuted and
even killed when they try to steal live electrical cables. I mean
think of the overall intelligence of someone attacking an overhead
cable with a hack saw. The mind boggles. Electrocution and burns is
too good for them. SB