In message , at 13:27:15 on Tue, 28 Feb
2012, Stephen Sprunk remarked:
It's not always a fraud. Chargebacks can arise because an item is "lost
in the mail".

If the goods are "lost in the mail", that is not fraud (since fraud
requires intent), but it is the merchant's responsibility* to cure that
defect. If they do not, it becomes fraud.

Or many people would class it as either negligence, or an unwillingness
to believe the customer (many of them are fraudsters too) that it really
is lost.

That's why any sensible merchant uses some sort of shipping with
delivery confirmation. Once delivered, their liability for a "FOB
destination" shipment ends.

Also, most customers _expect_ shipment tracking these days, and are
willing to pay a few dollars extra to get it. I would not do business
with a merchant that didn't offer _at minimum_ delivery confirmation,
for exactly this reason. I've had shipping problems in the past (mostly
with DHL, but once with UPS--never with FedEx) and have no desire to get
into a battle with the merchants or my bank over whose fault it is.

This is another US vs UK thing. Here in the UK it's quite unusual (and
somewhat expensive) to use a DHL/UPS/FedEx courier for most mail order
transactions. The majority still use the Royal Mail (and most often not
with either a tracking or delivery confirmation component) or one of a
variety of "low cost carriers" (cf: low cost airlines) who appear to use
part time workers and unmarked vehicles.

What would Amazon use in the USA if you bought a book for say $10?
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 20:25:31 on Tue, 28 Feb
2012, Adam H. Kerman remarked:
I suppose the devices used in restaurants wouldn't survive being
dropped onto a hard surface outdoors.

Not inevitable. I wonder if they work after being flushed down the
toilet or thrown in a barbecue ?

Dude: The article YOU CITED said that the spec included surviving being
dropped on a hard surface from waist height.

Then I'm not sure why you said they wouldn't, or is there something
special about outdoor hard surfaces?

(I didn't read the detail of the article).
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 14:13:12 on Tue, 28 Feb
2012, Adam H. Kerman remarked:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avantix_Mobile

Right. I didn't think those were wireless devices.

That's probably right. I thought perhaps they had a version with GSM/3G
data built in, but perhaps not. As a result, the range of credit/debit
cards they can accept is restricted.

However, if the transaction appears suspicious then the ticket seller
can opt to make a mobile phone call to obtain authorisation.

I wasn't thinking about ticket-printing machines, per se, but getting
back to another discussion we had in which the credit card number itself is
used as the ticket medium and the passenger gets billed for all passage
at the end of the month.

I've never encountered such a scheme.

There's a proposal to do *daily* billing via paywave credit cards for
travel in London, but I don't know how they propose to "inspect" the
ticket, because you can't 'load' one onto a credit card. I suppose
they'd need to use your credit card number to make an enquiry from their
own merchant account, to confirm you'd "touched in" recently.
--
Roland Perry

On 20/01/2012 21:29, Roland Perry wrote:
[London Congestion Charge)
There's also some enforcement by foot patrols, although I've never been
sure how widespread they are. That's because you have to pay by the day
once inside, which can't be enforced solely by entry cameras on the
periphery.

There aren't any foot patrols - rather, there are mobile camera vans
(dunno how many there are - maybe even just be the one?) that position
themselves on roads inside the zone:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aderowbotham/56561330/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/adinazed/6191499533/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/photo/205582779/

There are also fixed cameras on some key routes inside the zone, in
addition to the fixed cameras at every entry/exit point around the
periphery of the zone.

On 31/01/2012 08:13, Roland Perry wrote:
[...]
The same is true of London's Oyster, although more recently they have
added an "auto-topup" facility when the stored credit falls below £8.

FSVO "more recently" - it was launched back in mid-2005.

In message , at 11:34:40 on Wed, 29 Feb
2012, Mizter T remarked:
The same is true of London's Oyster, although more recently they have
added an "auto-topup" facility when the stored credit falls below £8.

FSVO "more recently" - it was launched back in mid-2005.

Time flies; but that was a couple of years after launch.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:

What would Amazon use in the USA if you bought a book for say $10?

Depends on what type of memebership you have and what shipping plan you select.
For regular members, standard shipping on an order with a book only would use US
Postal Service media mail. Takes 7-14 days. If the book is combined with a
non-media item, they tend to use UPS. Upgraded (extra fee) shipping is offered
for 2 day or overnight service. Those are available from the Postal Service, Fed
Ex and UPS at Amazon's discretion.

Prime Members (pay an annual fee) get 2 day shipping at no extra charge and can
pay a small amount for overnight service.

In message , at 06:53:50 on
Wed, 29 Feb 2012, Robert Neville remarked:
What would Amazon use in the USA if you bought a book for say $10?

Depends on what type of memebership you have and what shipping plan you select.
For regular members, standard shipping on an order with a book only would use US
Postal Service media mail. Takes 7-14 days.

That's a bit slow, but I suppose it's a big country. In UK we'd expect 3
days on average for ultra-cheap postal service, and I often get things
less than 24hrs after ordering using regular next-day postal service.

Upgraded (extra fee) shipping is offered for 2 day or overnight
service. Those are available from the Postal Service, Fed Ex and UPS at
Amazon's discretion.

What sort of order of magnitude is that extra fee?
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:

Upgraded (extra fee) shipping is offered for 2 day or overnight
service. Those are available from the Postal Service, Fed Ex and UPS at
Amazon's discretion.

What sort of order of magnitude is that extra fee?

In my experience, standard shipping for a $10 book might be $2, two day service
might be $10 and overnight might be $15.

Amazon US has a deal where standard shipping is free if you order $25 or more
worth of merchandise.

They also offer Amazon Prime, for $80 per year, where you automatically get 2
day shipping included on any order filled directly by Amazon. So it only takes a
few orders before you "break even" and you get the benefit of 2 day delivery.

On 29-Feb-12 02:49, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:05:50 on Tue, 28 Feb
2012, Stephen Sprunk remarked:
The dispute and chargeback procedures involving the issuing
bank, the card network, the card processor and the merchant are all
identical regardless of what class of payment card is used.

You just made something up. I'm still calling it a refund, and not a
chargeback, to distinguish between the merchant receiving payment in
advance of when the cardholder pays his bill, and the merchant receiving
money from the cardholder's bank account.

The merchant _never_ receives money from the cardholder's bank account.

I certainly feels like that, when you use a debit card.

When a purchase is posted, the card processor credits the merchant's
account and debits the network's account, the network credits the card
processor's account and debits the issuing bank's account, and the
issuing bank credits the network's account and debits the customer's
account. NO ACTUAL MONEY CHANGES HANDS at that time.

No folding banknotes (because it's all electronic), but why do you say
those credits and debits above are not "money"?

Perhaps I'm being too strict about my definition of "money", but debits
and credits are just accounting entries until cash (or checks, or wire
transfer) is used to settle them at some later point.

A "debit card" is special because it is settled every day by the issuing
bank with no further action by the customer; however, the rest of these
transactions, including those involving a "credit card", do not get
settled until later, eg. monthly.

S

--
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking