John Levine writes:

Haven't seen Amex with a proximity card yet, though will be sure to keep
an eye out.

I have one in my wallet, issued in the U.S.

My UK Amex has no chip at all, but they say that when they send me a new
card next month, it'll be chip+pin.
Amex were painfully slow introducing chip-and-pin in the UK. But have a
had a corporate amex with a chip for a while now, the lack of
chip was becoming a pain as I was unable to use pay-at-pump or automated
(railway) ticket machines, you know the sort of thing business
travellers need.

Phil

Roland Perry writes:


If the paywave terminals don't have a PIN pad (and for example the
ones they might fit to London underground gates probably wouldn't)
then they'll have to have a "plan B".
On the underground I would imagine its report to the ticket office, or
one of the ticket machines (which if my memory is right have a chip and
pin reader).

Everywhere I have seen paywave used (McDonalds is the most common, plus
have seen them in Wilkinsons) use the same terminal as chip and pin. At
a McDonalds drive through the cashier wont know if its chip and pin, or
paywave until after they have handed over the teminal.

Phil

In message , at 17:28:38 on Sun, 4
Mar 2012, Graham Nye remarked:
As a result, there's an aura of literally "poor man's card" hanging over
all debit cards.

Eh? This might be true for Solo/Electron cards (which never seemed to
be accepted by everyone), though I don't have any experience with one.
I do have a couple of debit cards, replacing cheque guarantee and ATM
cards on my current accounts (US:checking accounts)[1], but I've never
noticed any form of poor man's aura about them.

[1] As do tens of millions of other UK current account holders.

ATM cards are OK, but I'm sure Debit cards have a flavour of "I'm not
creditworthy enough to have a Credit Card".

A lot of credit card holders use them in effect as charge cards, as a
substitute for the "monthly credit" that the middle classes used to get
from tradesmen.

Before my time but, given the interest rates on credit cards, how else
would you use them if you are in a position to clear the debt on them
each month?

It's a cashflow issue. My main reason for using credit cards is because
I'm paying for travelling expenses that will get billed to a client.
These are often of the order of magnitude of monthly wages. If one's
business has a positive cash flow, perhaps it can be avoided, but that
seems to be a luxury these days.

(And, although this might be an old-fashioned view, if you're not in a
position to clear the debt you ought not run it up in the first place.)

Of you are re-billing it to a client, you can "afford" it, but maybe
only next month when they pay their bill.

Mind you, having your grocer deliver your shopping is back in fashion.

It is indeed. But not on a bicycle.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 18:46:40 on Sun, 4 Mar 2012,
Phil remarked:
Un-manned petrol stations are quite common on the continent. Tescos are
pay at pump only at night.

On the Continent? I've done many pay-at-pump transactions at Tesco in UK
during the day.
--
Roland Perry

"Phil" wrote in message ...



I remember Eurocard in Europe, in the UK it was called Access.

Phil

Access was joined to MasterCard (MCI) and EuroCard (ECI)- they are both
clubs.

Richard - who has read this thread with interest, ex-EFTPOS manager for
Access, ex-member APACS PIN Working Group

Roland Perry writes:

In message , at 18:46:40 on Sun, 4 Mar 2012,
Phil remarked:
Un-manned petrol stations are quite common on the continent. Tescos are
pay at pump only at night.

On the Continent? I've done many pay-at-pump transactions at Tesco in
UK during the day.
I said un-manned petrol stations, the only un-manned, i.e. no shop, I
have come across in the UK are ASDA. Have never seen a Tesco petrol
station without a shop.

Phil

On 04-Mar-12 13:18, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:28:38 on Sun, 4
Mar 2012, Graham Nye remarked:
As a result, there's an aura of literally "poor man's card" hanging over
all debit cards.

Eh? This might be true for Solo/Electron cards (which never seemed to
be accepted by everyone), though I don't have any experience with one.
I do have a couple of debit cards, replacing cheque guarantee and ATM
cards on my current accounts (US:checking accounts)[1], but I've never
noticed any form of poor man's aura about them.

[1] As do tens of millions of other UK current account holders.

ATM cards are OK, but I'm sure Debit cards have a flavour of "I'm not
creditworthy enough to have a Credit Card".

At least in the US, pure ATM cards are getting rare; most have been
replaced by debit cards, which are usable in ATMs. And debit cards are
typically included with checking accounts, so nearly everyone has one.

Many people who previously used credit/charge cards for convenience (and
paid in full every month) now use their debit cards instead.

A lot of credit card holders use them in effect as charge cards, as a
substitute for the "monthly credit" that the middle classes used to get
from tradesmen.

Before my time but, given the interest rates on credit cards, how else
would you use them if you are in a position to clear the debt on them
each month?

It's a cashflow issue. My main reason for using credit cards is because
I'm paying for travelling expenses that will get billed to a client.

A business charge card (which is how you _use_ yours, even if that's not
how the bank sees it) is an entirely different matter from a personal
(revolving) credit card.

S

--
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking

Stephen Sprunk writes:

On 04-Mar-12 13:18, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:28:38 on Sun, 4
Mar 2012, Graham Nye remarked:
As a result, there's an aura of literally "poor man's card" hanging over
all debit cards.

Eh? This might be true for Solo/Electron cards (which never seemed to
be accepted by everyone), though I don't have any experience with one.
I do have a couple of debit cards, replacing cheque guarantee and ATM
cards on my current accounts (US:checking accounts)[1], but I've never
noticed any form of poor man's aura about them.

[1] As do tens of millions of other UK current account holders.

ATM cards are OK, but I'm sure Debit cards have a flavour of "I'm not
creditworthy enough to have a Credit Card".

At least in the US, pure ATM cards are getting rare; most have been
replaced by debit cards, which are usable in ATMs. And debit cards are
typically included with checking accounts, so nearly everyone has one.

Many people who previously used credit/charge cards for convenience (and
paid in full every month) now use their debit cards instead.

Same in the UK, ATM cards either don't exist or if they do I have not
seen one for a very long time. Most people have both a debit and a
credit card, don't think you can have a current account (us checking)
without one. There i no stigma attached to them.

If there is a poor mans card, then it it the solo/electron, where I
believe every transaction must be authorised. A standard debit card
implies some sort of overdraft facility, Even if not formally agreed,
and can therefore also be used with an offline terminal.

Phil

On 04/03/2012 19:18, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:28:38 on Sun, 4
Mar 2012, Graham Nye remarked:
A lot of credit card holders use them in effect as charge cards, as a
substitute for the "monthly credit" that the middle classes used to get
from tradesmen.

Before my time but, given the interest rates on credit cards, how else
would you use them if you are in a position to clear the debt on them
each month?

It's a cashflow issue. My main reason for using credit cards is because
I'm paying for travelling expenses that will get billed to a client.

Well, fair enough. I was thinking of domestic usage, as your initial
comment implies.



--
Graham Nye
news(a)thenyes.org.uk

In message , Stephen Sprunk
writes
At least in the US, pure ATM cards are getting rare; most have been
replaced by debit cards, which are usable in ATMs. And debit cards are
typically included with checking accounts, so nearly everyone has one.
Many people who previously used credit/charge cards for convenience (and
paid in full every month) now use their debit cards instead.
Indeed, now that banks in the UK have withdrawn the facility to use
debit cars as cheque guarantee cards, most firms will now only accept
payment by debit card.
--
Clive