"Roland Perry" wrote in message ...

sigh but we don't (here in the UK anyway) live in a world where every
transaction is authorised.
--
Roland Perry

Strictly speaking not authorised online

Richard

"Roland Perry" wrote in message ...

Because I'm not convinced that accepting a debit card which passes the C&P
PIN, but is later declined because of lack of funds, is at the retailer's
risk.
--
Roland Perry

If the retailer has followed the correct procedures they will get paid, bank
foots the bill

Richard

In message , at 18:01:33 on Tue, 20 Mar
2012, R J Cardy remarked:
What I agree we didn't get to the bottom of is how the card companies
can issue 'normal' VISA debit cards while also promising the
cardholder that they (the cardholder) will not be allowed to overdraw.

The same way they could hand out cheque books with £50 cheque guarantee
cards (cgc). I once opened a bank account with £1 and received a cheque
book containing 30 cheques plus a £50 cgc. Maybe it was because I
worked for a company known as Access.

I don't recall them ever promising those account holders that the bank
wouldn't let them go overdrawn. Indeed, I'd be very surprised if minors
were given CGCs.
--
Roland Perry

On 20-Mar-12 07:52, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:38:11 on Tue, 20 Mar
2012, Mizter T remarked:
---quote---
Credit cards

Under 18s can normally only get a credit card as an additional
cardholder – for example on a parent’s credit card account. This age
group are not usually granted access to credit themselves because,
under existing legislation, under-18-year-olds do not have the
capacity to enter into a contract, which is a pre-requisite for a
credit product. Some credit card companies, however, will not give
credit cards to under-18s even as additional cardholders.

Charge cards

The same rules apply to charge cards as to credit cards.

Unfortunately that last part is completely wrong (which is an issue
because it's the very thing this thread has been about).

Charge cards are non-revolving credit cards. Normally, "credit card"
refers to the revolving subset.

Solo and Electron (and now VISA Debit) are precisely the debit cards
which *are* given to under 18's in their own right in the UK.

The above doesn't discuss debit cards, only credit and charge cards.

S


--
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking

In message , at 14:39:59 on Tue, 20 Mar
2012, Stephen Sprunk remarked:
Credit cards

Under 18s can normally only get a credit card as an additional
cardholder – for example on a parent’s credit card account. This age
group are not usually granted access to credit themselves because,
under existing legislation, under-18-year-olds do not have the
capacity to enter into a contract, which is a pre-requisite for a
credit product. Some credit card companies, however, will not give
credit cards to under-18s even as additional cardholders.

Charge cards

The same rules apply to charge cards as to credit cards.

Unfortunately that last part is completely wrong (which is an issue
because it's the very thing this thread has been about).

Charge cards are non-revolving credit cards. Normally, "credit card"
refers to the revolving subset.

Solo and Electron (and now VISA Debit) are precisely the debit cards
which *are* given to under 18's in their own right in the UK.

The above doesn't discuss debit cards, only credit and charge cards.

oops. Here's what that page says about debit cards:

Debit cards

These are only issued when linked to a bank or building society account,
usually a current account. As under-18s do not have the capacity to
enter into a contract, banks and building societies do not usually
permit this age group to have an overdraft. Some debit cards, such as
Solo or Visa Electron, require all transactions to be authorised against
money already in the account, which prevents the cardholder going
overdrawn.
--
Roland Perry

On 20-Mar-12 02:45, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:00:09 on Mon, 19 Mar
2012, Stephen Sprunk remarked:
It's not the kind of secret that would keep very well.

There are plenty of reasons for everyone (both the criminals and the
banks) to keep such a success very, very secret.

They might try to, but I'm sure they'd fail. If the criminals and the
banks conspired together such that only the banks saw any financial
loss, then they might get away with it

I doubt they'd directly conspire, but that may be the emergent behavior
when each seeks to optimize their own behavior.

(although it would be simpler for the banks just to pay the criminals
direct).

It would have been simpler for WWII to have been resolved by a game of
checkers, but I doubt either side would have accepted that.

Otherwise there will be third parties seeing losses, and questions
would be asked.

Merchants who authorize their transactions rarely see losses because the
banks are liable for third-party fraud; those who don't will be told
they should if they don't like being liable for fraud.

The banks are willing to accept a certain level of fraud (I've heard
1-3%) because it's easily compensated by the profits they make in
transaction fees and interest.

S

--
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking

On 20-Mar-12 14:51, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:39:59 on Tue, 20 Mar
2012, Stephen Sprunk remarked:
Credit cards

Under 18s can normally only get a credit card as an additional
cardholder – for example on a parent’s credit card account. This age
group are not usually granted access to credit themselves because,
under existing legislation, under-18-year-olds do not have the
capacity to enter into a contract, which is a pre-requisite for a
credit product. Some credit card companies, however, will not give
credit cards to under-18s even as additional cardholders.

Charge cards

The same rules apply to charge cards as to credit cards.

Unfortunately that last part is completely wrong (which is an issue
because it's the very thing this thread has been about).

Charge cards are non-revolving credit cards. Normally, "credit card"
refers to the revolving subset.

Solo and Electron (and now VISA Debit) are precisely the debit cards
which *are* given to under 18's in their own right in the UK.

The above doesn't discuss debit cards, only credit and charge cards.

oops. Here's what that page says about debit cards:

Debit cards

These are only issued when linked to a bank or building society account,
usually a current account. As under-18s do not have the capacity to
enter into a contract, banks and building societies do not usually
permit this age group to have an overdraft. Some debit cards, such as
Solo or Visa Electron, require all transactions to be authorised against
money already in the account, which prevents the cardholder going
overdrawn.

How does the merchant know that any given card presented requires
authorization? Is this the floor that folks have mentioned recently
elsewhere in the thread, and is such encoded on the card itself?

For US cards, AFAIK there is no floor encoded on the card; the floor is
set by the card processor depending on the merchant's chargeback
rate--and never exceeds USD 50. The merchant is guaranteed to get at
least that much without having to authorize each transaction--even if
the issuing bank declines it. They will typically authorize any
transaction over that amount, though, which wouldn't work for totally
offline terminals.

S

--
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking

On 18/03/2012 15:47, Goalie of the Century wrote:
In message , "
writes

What ever happened with Ryanair's plans to do something like that, BTW?

http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/gen-en-300806

30.08.06
Ryanair, Europe’s largest low fares airline, and OnAir, the leading
onboard passenger communications provider, today (30th Aug) announced a
deal that will see Ryanair’s entire fleet of Boeing 737 aircraft fitted
with OnAir’s onboard mobile communications solution.

http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/launch-of-europe-s-1st-fleet-wide-inflight-mobile-phone-service


19.02.09
Ryanair, Europe’s largest low fares airline, today (19th Feb) launched
its in-flight mobile phone service initially onboard 20 of its (mainly)
Dublin based aircraft. This is the first step in fitting Ryanair’s
entire fleet of over 170 aircraft to allow all passengers to make and
receive mobile calls and texts on all Ryanair flights.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/onair-hangs-up-on-ryanair-mobile-phone-deal-340096/


1 Apr 2010
Disagreement on timing for a fleet roll-out, among other issues, led
OnAir to terminate its agreement to provide on-board to-fit mobile phone
service across budget carrier Ryanair's fleet.

http://www.ryanair.com/en/questions/can-i-use-my-mobile-phone-or-ped-onboard


The use of Mobile Phones is not permitted onboard any Ryanair aircraft.

Probably also because O'Leary tried to bid for the equipment at an
unrealistically low level and, when the equipment provider declined, he
became verbally abusive.

On 18/03/2012 22:10, John Levine wrote:
I wonder if any if any passenger ships that cross the Atlantic Ocean
offer such a service, such as Cunard's Queens.

Many cruise ships offer incredibly overpriced cell service with satellite uplink.
Prices are upwards of 2 quid/minute.

R's,
John
What about text messages, I wonder? Is there also a charge to receive
them in this case?

On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 16:18:00 -0500, Stephen Sprunk
wrote:

On 20-Mar-12 14:51, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:39:59 on Tue, 20 Mar
2012, Stephen Sprunk remarked:
Credit cards

Under 18s can normally only get a credit card as an additional
cardholder – for example on a parent’s credit card account. This age
group are not usually granted access to credit themselves because,
under existing legislation, under-18-year-olds do not have the
capacity to enter into a contract, which is a pre-requisite for a
credit product. Some credit card companies, however, will not give
credit cards to under-18s even as additional cardholders.

Charge cards

The same rules apply to charge cards as to credit cards.

Unfortunately that last part is completely wrong (which is an issue
because it's the very thing this thread has been about).

Charge cards are non-revolving credit cards. Normally, "credit card"
refers to the revolving subset.

Solo and Electron (and now VISA Debit) are precisely the debit cards
which *are* given to under 18's in their own right in the UK.

The above doesn't discuss debit cards, only credit and charge cards.

oops. Here's what that page says about debit cards:

Debit cards

These are only issued when linked to a bank or building society account,
usually a current account. As under-18s do not have the capacity to
enter into a contract, banks and building societies do not usually
permit this age group to have an overdraft. Some debit cards, such as
Solo or Visa Electron, require all transactions to be authorised against
money already in the account, which prevents the cardholder going
overdrawn.

How does the merchant know that any given card presented requires
authorization?

According to Wonkypaedia, all Solo and Electron transactions
require(d) authorisation :-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solo_%28debit_card%29


Is this the floor that folks have mentioned recently
elsewhere in the thread, and is such encoded on the card itself?

For US cards, AFAIK there is no floor encoded on the card; the floor is
set by the card processor depending on the merchant's chargeback
rate--and never exceeds USD 50. The merchant is guaranteed to get at
least that much without having to authorize each transaction--even if
the issuing bank declines it. They will typically authorize any
transaction over that amount, though, which wouldn't work for totally
offline terminals.

S