Graham Nye wrote:
On 30/03/2012 18:40, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
Guy Gorton wrote:

What is a cell phone? Used in prisons?

Oh, good grief. You use the concept in your country.

You aren't aware that mobile phones use a cellular network?

I expect he is. Guy is pointing out that you are cross-
posting to two newsgroups where we call such devices
mobiles.

So if "cellular" is an international concept, is it acceptable to everyone
else for Guy to pretend to be obtuse?

In the United States, they are called cell phones and mobile phones.
Some networks marketed the service with one term or the other. I believe
"cell" was the marketing term by some networks in early days to
distinguish the technology from pre-cellular mobile telephones that
were built into automobiles and communicated with base stations with
much longer ranges than transponders on cell towers.

Graham Nye wrote:
On 30/03/2012 18:03, Guy Gorton wrote:
"Adam H. Kerman" wrote:

For billing purposes, traditionally, calls from land lines were rated on
time and distance. Initially, cell phone calls were rated on time, only,
within the home coverage area, and time and distance, if the call terminated
outside the home coverage area.

What is a cell phone? Used in prisons?

Like a mobile, but with the useful feature that the user pays for
the inconvenience to everyone in earshot, rather than the caller.

(US mobiles have numbers that look like ordinary landline numbers
rather than being split off into a distinctive series, like our
07... numbers, so a US caller won't be aware from the number that
they are calling a cellular phone.)

Right. Callers from outside your country sure appreciate that
caller pays surcharge on top of the charge for international long distance,
as it's not readily apparent to foreigners that caller pays applies.

Caller pays is a lovely system.

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 20:08:36 +0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
wrote:

Graham Nye wrote:
On 30/03/2012 18:40, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
Guy Gorton wrote:

What is a cell phone? Used in prisons?

Oh, good grief. You use the concept in your country.

You aren't aware that mobile phones use a cellular network?

I expect he is. Guy is pointing out that you are cross-
posting to two newsgroups where we call such devices
mobiles.

So if "cellular" is an international concept, is it acceptable to everyone
else for Guy to pretend to be obtuse?

In the United States, they are called cell phones and mobile phones.

Ditto in the UK with "cell phone" often used to distinguish them from
"cordless" telephones, both being mobile.

Some networks marketed the service with one term or the other. I believe
"cell" was the marketing term by some networks in early days to
distinguish the technology from pre-cellular mobile telephones that
were built into automobiles and communicated with base stations with
much longer ranges than transponders on cell towers.

On 30-Mar-12 15:08, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
Graham Nye wrote:
On 30/03/2012 18:40, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
Guy Gorton wrote:
What is a cell phone? Used in prisons?

Oh, good grief. You use the concept in your country.

You aren't aware that mobile phones use a cellular network?

I expect he is. Guy is pointing out that you are cross-
posting to two newsgroups where we call such devices
mobiles.

So if "cellular" is an international concept, is it acceptable to everyone
else for Guy to pretend to be obtuse?

"Cellular" is; "cell" isn't. Either way, though, users don't care about
technical details of radio network organization; they care that their
phone isn't tied to a fixed location, i.e. it is "mobile".

In the United States, they are called cell phones and mobile phones.

Or wireless phones. Using country-specific terminology likely wouldn't
have drawn comment if you weren't cross-posting to newsgroups for other
countries where that term _isn't_ used.

Some networks marketed the service with one term or the other. I believe
"cell" was the marketing term by some networks in early days

IIRC, they always used the full word, "cellular". It was customers who
shortened it from three syllables to one, which is often the impetus for
the development of American slang. Perhaps if those carriers had used
the international term "mobile", which is only two syllables and has no
obvious shortening, the term "cell" never would have appeared.

to distinguish the technology from pre-cellular mobile telephones that
were built into automobiles and communicated with base stations with
much longer ranges than transponders on cell towers.

Are you referring to "radio telephones"?

There were cellular car phones as well, back before handheld models were
available. One of my classmates (a drug dealer) had one.

S

--
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking

In article ,
(Guy Gorton) wrote:

For billing purposes, traditionally, calls from land lines were rated on
time and distance. Initially, cell phone calls were rated on time, only,
within the home coverage area, and time and distance, if the call
terminated outside the home coverage area.

What is a cell phone? Used in prisons?

It's Merkin for mobile.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Because the original mobile carriers were all subsidiaries of the
incumbent land line telephone companies, they thought in land-line
terms.

That's simply wrong. In each area there were two mobile (cellular in
US argot) franchises, A and B. The B franchise was awarded to a local
landline carrier, the A to someone else. In some areas the A carrier was
a landline carrier in a different part of the country, but in many cases,
notably McCaw Cellular, they were new specialist carriers.

In North America, unlike in most other areas, mobile numbers are
integrated into the regular dial plan, there's no distinction in
numbering or pricing for calls to mobiles, and mobiles pay for both
incoming and outgoing calls.

There's a variety of arguments about why we did it that way. One is
simply that there weren't enough spare area codes to overlay new
mobile ones on top of all the landline areas so they had no choice.
Another is that the US and Canada are large countries, and back in the
1980s the incremental cost for a call across the country compared to a
local call was high enough that it wasn't reasonable to charge all
calls to or from mobiles the same. (I sure had a lot of complicated
charging plans back then.)

Another theory is that mobile pays means that we have number
portability between mobile and landline, which will never happen in
caller pays areas, and that since the mobile customer is aware of the
price of incoming and outgoing calls, the actual price per minute
(including the incoming calls which mobile users in caller pays areas
incorrectly think are "free") is among the lowest in the world.

R's,
John
--
Regards,
John Levine, , Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly

Stephen Sprunk wrote:
On 30-Mar-12 15:08, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
Graham Nye wrote:
On 30/03/2012 18:40, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
Guy Gorton wrote:

What is a cell phone? Used in prisons?

Oh, good grief. You use the concept in your country.

You aren't aware that mobile phones use a cellular network?

I expect he is. Guy is pointing out that you are cross-
posting to two newsgroups where we call such devices
mobiles.

So if "cellular" is an international concept, is it acceptable to everyone
else for Guy to pretend to be obtuse?

"Cellular" is; "cell" isn't.

Yet, one of our friends from the UK tells us that "cell phone" is a term
that's sometimes used to distinguish the concept from "cordless phone",
as both types are mobile.

Either way, though, users don't care about technical details of radio
network organization; they care that their phone isn't tied to a fixed
location, i.e. it is "mobile".

In the United States, they are called cell phones and mobile phones.

Or wireless phones. Using country-specific terminology likely wouldn't
have drawn comment if you weren't cross-posting to newsgroups for other
countries where that term _isn't_ used.

I haven't used country-specific terminology, Stephen. You're wrong.

Some networks marketed the service with one term or the other. I believe
"cell" was the marketing term by some networks in early days

IIRC, they always used the full word, "cellular".

It's a cell phone because it works in a cell, Stephen. It's cellular
because it works on a cellular network. "They" didn't always use one
word or the other.

It was customers who shortened it from three syllables to one, which is
often the impetus for the development of American slang.

You know for a fact that no engineer who ever worked in deploying the
technology used "cell"; how nice for you.

Perhaps if those carriers had used the international term "mobile",
which is only two syllables and has no obvious shortening, the term
"cell" never would have appeared.

Oh, mobile is an international term for a technology developed in the
United States? Cute. Mobile was already in use for non-cellular telephony
as I pointed out already, Stephen. "Mobile" is the equivalent to
"wireless", and more generic than "cellular".

to distinguish the technology from pre-cellular mobile telephones that
were built into automobiles and communicated with base stations with
much longer ranges than transponders on cell towers.

Are you referring to "radio telephones"?

Did you ever see the television show Cannon? He used his constantly.

There were cellular car phones as well, back before handheld models were
available. One of my classmates (a drug dealer) had one.

My mother had a car phone in 1993, but she was a CPA, not a drug dealer.

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 19:41:35 +0100, Graham Nye
wrote:

On 30/03/2012 18:40, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
Guy Gorton wrote:

What is a cell phone? Used in prisons?

Oh, good grief. You use the concept in your country.

You aren't aware that mobile phones use a cellular network?

I expect he is. Guy is pointing out that you are cross-
posting to two newsgroups where we call such devices
mobiles.

You are, of course, correct. I have spent much time in the USA and
this is just one of many examples of language differences. I became
particularly aware of the differences because I found myself writing
instructional text destined to be distributed world-wide by an
American company to its staff of many nationalities.
I therefore had to write and spell in "American" which made me adhere,
in my private life, to the most English of English language! Even in
conversation with Americans, providing misunderstandings were
avoided..

Guy Gorton

John Levine wrote:

Because the original mobile carriers were all subsidiaries of the
incumbent land line telephone companies, they thought in land-line
terms.

That's simply wrong. In each area there were two mobile (cellular in
US argot) franchises, A and B. The B franchise was awarded to a local
landline carrier, the A to someone else. In some areas the A carrier was
a landline carrier in a different part of the country, but in many cases,
notably McCaw Cellular, they were new specialist carriers.

You mean the guy who purchased MCI's wireless business and deployed
AT&T's technology in the license areas he bought? You're right. He's not
an ILEC, but he wasn't independent. Did the guy deploy any technology on
his own, or was he merely a speculator in radio spectrum licenses?

In North America, unlike in most other areas, mobile numbers are
integrated into the regular dial plan, there's no distinction in
numbering or pricing for calls to mobiles, and mobiles pay for both
incoming and outgoing calls.

There's a variety of arguments about why we did it that way. . . .

Another theory is that mobile pays means that we have number
portability between mobile and landline,

Really? Local number portability was a consideration in the early 1980's?

which will never happen in caller pays areas, and that since the mobile
customer is aware of the price of incoming and outgoing calls, the actual
price per minute (including the incoming calls which mobile users in
caller pays areas incorrectly think are "free") is among the lowest in
the world.

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 15:30:13 -0500, Stephen Sprunk
wrote:

On 30-Mar-12 15:08, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
Graham Nye wrote:
On 30/03/2012 18:40, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
Guy Gorton wrote:
What is a cell phone? Used in prisons?

Oh, good grief. You use the concept in your country.

You aren't aware that mobile phones use a cellular network?

I expect he is. Guy is pointing out that you are cross-
posting to two newsgroups where we call such devices
mobiles.

So if "cellular" is an international concept, is it acceptable to everyone
else for Guy to pretend to be obtuse?

"Cellular" is; "cell" isn't. Either way, though, users don't care about
technical details of radio network organization; they care that their
phone isn't tied to a fixed location, i.e. it is "mobile".

In the United States, they are called cell phones and mobile phones.

Or wireless phones. Using country-specific terminology likely wouldn't
have drawn comment if you weren't cross-posting to newsgroups for other
countries where that term _isn't_ used.

Some networks marketed the service with one term or the other. I believe
"cell" was the marketing term by some networks in early days

IIRC, they always used the full word, "cellular". It was customers who
shortened it from three syllables to one, which is often the impetus for
the development of American slang.

A bit like the American use of the verb "orient" rather than
"orientate". Orient is concerned with the East.

My current "favourite" Americanism is the announcement on a delayed
aeroplane that "the airplane will be taking off momentarily".

Noah Webster has a lot to answer for...

--
Frank Erskine