In message , at 23:22:46 on Sat, 25 Feb
2012, tim.... remarked:
The "only one journey" rule applies to the part outside the Travelcard
zones, once inside you can make as many journeys as you like (modulo the
possibility that even the semi-mythical +HS1 Travelcard might be invalid
from Stratford to StP.

No, I don't think so. HS1 is part of your inbound journey and can only be
travelled once.

If I have a Cambridge outboundary Travelcard, then I can travel back and
forth all day between (eg) Finsbury Park and Kings Cross. The "one-shot"
part is from Cambridge to Hadley Wood.

If it were true that using HS1 from Stratford to St Pancras isn't
allowed *at all* on a Travelcard (even a PLUS HIGH SPEED one), there's
no reason I can't get off at Stratford and travel back and forth by tube
all day.

But what may be the case is that the +HS1 Travelcard is valid for a
one-off trip to St Pancras, then as a Travelcard (excluding multiple use
on HS1),

Though one thing I don't know (and have been meaning to try for ages)
is, can I break my journey at Stratford (to visit the shopping
centre) and then continue later to StP (which would be my intended
destination whenever I buy super expensive ticket)?

If it's a CDR on HS1, then it should allow BoJ.

I know, but how do I prove that.

You ask to see the Fares Manual at a station, or ask someone to print
off the relevant screen from the Avantix CD.

BoJ is also allowed on the Travelcard, which gives them an interesting
problem at Stratford when you resume your inbound one-off trip on HS1.

http://www.perry.co.uk/images/ruleC4.jpg
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 23:22:46 on Sat, 25 Feb
2012, tim.... remarked:
The "only one journey" rule applies to the part outside the Travelcard
zones, once inside you can make as many journeys as you like (modulo the
possibility that even the semi-mythical +HS1 Travelcard might be invalid
from Stratford to StP.

No, I don't think so. HS1 is part of your inbound journey and can only be
travelled once.

If I have a Cambridge outboundary Travelcard, then I can travel back and
forth all day between (eg) Finsbury Park and Kings Cross. The "one-shot"
part is from Cambridge to Hadley Wood.

But that's not HS1.

HS1 is specifically excluded from a (normal) ODTC.

Finsbury park to KX is NOT


If it were true that using HS1 from Stratford to St Pancras isn't allowed
*at all* on a Travelcard (even a PLUS HIGH SPEED one),

It isn't, except as part of the single through journey (BOJ argument
ignored). So once that single through journey is completed, no further HS1
travel is allowed (until you want to go home again).

there's no reason I can't get off at Stratford and travel back and forth
by tube all day.

Which adds what to the discussion?


But what may be the case is that the +HS1 Travelcard is valid for a
one-off trip to St Pancras, then as a Travelcard (excluding multiple use
on HS1),

Though one thing I don't know (and have been meaning to try for ages)
is, can I break my journey at Stratford (to visit the shopping centre)
and then continue later to StP (which would be my intended destination
whenever I buy super expensive ticket)?

If it's a CDR on HS1, then it should allow BoJ.

I know, but how do I prove that.

You ask to see the Fares Manual at a station, or ask someone to print off
the relevant screen from the Avantix CD.

I meant, how do I prove that I'm continuing a broken journey and haven't
just arrived at Stratford by tube.

tim

In message , at 10:32:55 on Sun, 26 Feb
2012, tim.... remarked:
The "only one journey" rule applies to the part outside the Travelcard
zones, once inside you can make as many journeys as you like (modulo the
possibility that even the semi-mythical +HS1 Travelcard might be invalid
from Stratford to StP.

No, I don't think so. HS1 is part of your inbound journey and can only be
travelled once.

If I have a Cambridge outboundary Travelcard, then I can travel back and
forth all day between (eg) Finsbury Park and Kings Cross. The "one-shot"
part is from Cambridge to Hadley Wood.

But that's not HS1.

HS1 is specifically excluded from a (normal) ODTC.

Finsbury park to KX is NOT

sigh I know that - I'm trying to draw a distinction between the two
trips.

If it were true that using HS1 from Stratford to St Pancras isn't allowed
*at all* on a Travelcard (even a PLUS HIGH SPEED one),

It isn't, except

Concentrate! *at all* would not have "except"ions.

as part of the single through journey (BOJ argument
ignored). So once that single through journey is completed, no further HS1
travel is allowed (until you want to go home again).

there's no reason I can't get off at Stratford and travel back and forth
by tube all day.

Which adds what to the discussion?

A sense of frustration that having got all the way to Stratford on HS1
(from Ashford or wherever), they are mean spirited enough to say I can't
have multiple trips from there to St Pancras. How many people would want
to do that, and how much money are they saving by having this silly rule
which is at odds with what's printed on the ticket viz: Travelcard PLUS
HIGH SPEED. As far as I'm concerned they can continue to ban "Any
permitted" and "Not HS1" travelcards, if they really do want to appear
to be penny pinching skinflints, which appears to be the case.

But what may be the case is that the +HS1 Travelcard is valid for a
one-off trip to St Pancras, then as a Travelcard (excluding multiple use
on HS1),

Though one thing I don't know (and have been meaning to try for ages)
is, can I break my journey at Stratford (to visit the shopping centre)
and then continue later to StP (which would be my intended destination
whenever I buy super expensive ticket)?

If it's a CDR on HS1, then it should allow BoJ.

I know, but how do I prove that.

You ask to see the Fares Manual at a station, or ask someone to print off
the relevant screen from the Avantix CD.

I meant, how do I prove that I'm continuing a broken journey and haven't
just arrived at Stratford by tube.

The gates may have written evidence of your arrival by HS1 (rather than
tube/Overground/DLR/AGA[1]) onto the mag stripe. Otherwise it's for you
to assert and them to disprove (easier said than done, I agree).

[1] Abellio Greater Anglia.
--
Roland Perry

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

[1] Abellio Greater Anglia.

Trading as "Greater Anglia".

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , at 06:34:44
on Sun, 26 Feb 2012, remarked:
[1] Abellio Greater Anglia.

Trading as "Greater Anglia".

AGA is shorter than AGATAGA :-) But perhaps there's the makings of a
nickname there.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 10:32:55 on Sun, 26 Feb
2012, tim.... remarked:
The "only one journey" rule applies to the part outside the Travelcard
zones, once inside you can make as many journeys as you like (modulo
the
possibility that even the semi-mythical +HS1 Travelcard might be
invalid
from Stratford to StP.

No, I don't think so. HS1 is part of your inbound journey and can only
be
travelled once.

If I have a Cambridge outboundary Travelcard, then I can travel back and
forth all day between (eg) Finsbury Park and Kings Cross. The "one-shot"
part is from Cambridge to Hadley Wood.

But that's not HS1.

HS1 is specifically excluded from a (normal) ODTC.

Finsbury park to KX is NOT

sigh I know that - I'm trying to draw a distinction between the two
trips.

If it were true that using HS1 from Stratford to St Pancras isn't
allowed
*at all* on a Travelcard (even a PLUS HIGH SPEED one),

It isn't, except

Concentrate! *at all* would not have "except"ions.

It doesn't (that was just my term). An out boundary travelcard is really
two products in one. A ODTC and a return to London.

So the ODTC part of the ticket isn't valid on HS1 but the return ticket is.

So there isn't really any exceptions, except when someone tries to invoke
the same rules on out bounday TC as in-boundary ones (as you seem to be
trying)

as part of the single through journey (BOJ argument
ignored). So once that single through journey is completed, no further
HS1
travel is allowed (until you want to go home again).

there's no reason I can't get off at Stratford and travel back and forth
by tube all day.

Which adds what to the discussion?

A sense of frustration that having got all the way to Stratford on HS1
(from Ashford or wherever), they are mean spirited enough to say I can't
have multiple trips from there to St Pancras. How many people would want
to do that,

so how many are inconvenienced?

and how much money are they saving by having this silly rule

Perhaps they see it as a simpler rule.

If they said that "Any permitted" out boundary TC were valid for unlimited
trips on HS1 you would get people who interpreted that as meaning that one
from Guildford was valid.

So to avoid having to explain "exactly" what they mean, they just say than
none are valid.

Few (who would qualify) are going to be inconvenienced


tim

In message , at 16:09:59 on Sun, 26 Feb
2012, tim.... remarked:

An out boundary travelcard is really two products in one. A ODTC and a
return to London.

That's where you are wrong. It's a return to BZ6 (or a closer BZ if the
train service never stops further out), plus an ODTC.

So the ODTC part of the ticket isn't valid on HS1 but the return ticket is.

This is a "special case" for HS1.

So there isn't really any exceptions, except when someone tries to invoke
the same rules on out bounday TC as in-boundary ones (as you seem to be
trying)

These +HS1 Travelcards are the exception.

A sense of frustration that having got all the way to Stratford on HS1
(from Ashford or wherever), they are mean spirited enough to say I can't
have multiple trips from there to St Pancras. How many people would want
to do that,

so how many are inconvenienced?

Lots of them, if getting your head round the Byzantine rules counts as
inconvenience.

and how much money are they saving by having this silly rule

Perhaps they see it as a simpler rule.

It would be if (like Heathrow Express) the train didn't stop within the
Zones. Unfortunately Stratford International is in Zone 3. One solution
would be to make Stratford International HS1 "outside" the zones, in the
same sense that HEx T123 and T5 are outside the zones (but the same
named Piccadilly stations are inside). But for some reason they have
chosen not to (literally) draw the map like that.

If they said that "Any permitted" out boundary TC were valid for unlimited
trips on HS1 you would get people who interpreted that as meaning that one
from Guildford was valid.

I'm not asking for all "Any Permitted" Travelcards to be valid for
multiple journeys (although that might be my next request). Only
Travelcards marked "+HS1".

So to avoid having to explain "exactly" what they mean, they just say than
none are valid.

And then shoot themselves in the foot by annotating the Travelcard as
"+HS1".

Few (who would qualify) are going to be inconvenienced

I expect most Travelcard users are actually using them for a very
limited number of point-to-point journeys. But the Travelcard is sold as
an "unlimited rover" within the zones, and they should not start making
these special exemptions.
--
Roland Perry