I have an OysterCard loaded with a zones 1-3 travelcard, and commute
each morning from my ungated zone 3 station on the GOBLIN to a gated
London Underground station in zone 1.

I'm not in the habit of touching in, as it seems pointless, and as far
as I'm aware is not required by the rules (after all, the Oyster
TravelCard has *always* been valid on that route - why should this be
affected by the installation of some equipment for PAYG customers?)

Last week there were some supplementary LOL people at the station -
not doing your regular grip and inspection of all tickets, but instead
just seeming to be lurking. As I headed to the platforms as usual
they told me I should have touched in.

I told them that I didn't think I had to, I had a season ticket, and
pointed out that I might very well have a paper ticket in which case I
couldn't exactly touch in. They claimed that I had to touch in with
an Oyster season ticket anyhow. I pointed them at section 9 of the
NRCoC, which I believe makes my OysterCard-loaded-with-season
equivalent to a paper ticket, with no need to touch in under the
"validated Oyster card" requirement as it is already covered in the
"valid ticket" part of that phrase.

Is my understanding correct?

--
Abi

"Jack" wrote in message
...

On Apr 2, 5:19 pm, Abigail Brady wrote:
I have an OysterCard loaded with a zones 1-3 travelcard, and commute
each morning from my ungated zone 3 station on the GOBLIN to a gated
London Underground station in zone 1.

I'm not in the habit of touching in, as it seems pointless, and as far
as I'm aware is not required by the rules (after all, the Oyster
TravelCard has *always* been valid on that route - why should this be
affected by the installation of some equipment for PAYG customers?)

Last week there were some supplementary LOL people at the station -
not doing your regular grip and inspection of all tickets, but instead
just seeming to be lurking. As I headed to the platforms as usual
they told me I should have touched in.

I told them that I didn't think I had to, I had a season ticket, and
pointed out that I might very well have a paper ticket in which case I
couldn't exactly touch in. They claimed that I had to touch in with
an Oyster season ticket anyhow. I pointed them at section 9 of the
NRCoC, which I believe makes my OysterCard-loaded-with-season
equivalent to a paper ticket, with no need to touch in under the
"validated Oyster card" requirement as it is already covered in the
"valid ticket" part of that phrase.

Is my understanding correct?

--
Abi

In a word, no.

Page 2, section 1.1
and
Page 4, section 3.6

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...ugust-2011.pdf

It isn't quite so clear cut.

Section 3.13 (about PAYG) says "At the station where you start your journey,
you *must* touch your Oyster card flat on a yellow card reader (see clause
3.4) at the station."

Section 3.6 (about Oyster Travelcards) says "When you use a National Rail
service, you *should* touch your Oyster card on the yellow card reader
before you start your journey, at the station you are leaving from; and at
the end of your journey, when you arrive at your destinations station.

To me, that means that it is recommended to touch in with a travelcard, but
not compulsory.

Peter Smyth

Also section 3.13 specifically mentions a penalty fare for not touching in with PAYG, but 3.6 has no such language.

On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 4:26:12 PM UTC+1, Paul Corfield wrote:
However you need to place yourself in the shoes of the ticket
inspectors that Abigail encountered. They cannot know what journey was
going to be undertaken and whether it was wholly within the zones on
the card or would involve a PAYG extension fare.

They can't, so is this just a procedural rule to enforce the convention of touching in in order to make their jobs easier? Note that they weren't doing a proper ticket inspection, they just seemed to be enforcing using the readers. Because I can't see there would be actual fare evasion I could more easily carry out if touching in were not mandatory in this situation.

Certainly I could not touch in, catch a train, and then sneak out at some ungated station outside my zones. But that would be completely possible if I had touched in, as the touch-in does not deduct the deposit, and there would be the risk of being ticket-inspected either on the train or at the other end. So if I were trying to fare-evade, I'd touch in, not worry about getting gripped en route, and then make the decision about whether to touch out at the other end. (Travel *from* outside my zones is another matter, of course).

In fact, I've been bitten the time I did go the other way, by forgetting to touch in, travelling to zone 4 and then facing a gateline and ending up with an unresolved journey. So for now I'm going to touch in, as it's not a bad habit.

--
Abi