"Roland Perry" wrote in message
news
In message , at 00:27:29 on Wed, 30 May 2012,

Nope, "excess fares":

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-crackdown-on-
underground-1432060.html

It seems there are still a few on National Rail:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/statio...9-0000062.html

But that's an LU station - and the signage is that of an LU operated ticket
office?

Paul S

On 30/05/2012 10:02, Paul Scott wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote:
Nope, "excess fares":

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-crackdown-on-
underground-1432060.html

It seems there are still a few on National Rail:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/statio...9-0000062.html

But that's an LU station - and the signage is that of an LU operated
ticket office?

It is - it's there to cater for those arriving at Moorgate off Great
Northern (NR) services whom might not have a (full) ticket for whatever
reason.

On May 25, 12:17*pm, ian batten wrote:
On May 25, 10:06*am, Jethro_uk wrote:

However, in a situation where a service is nominally offered to the
general public, would a clause insisting you pay by card, or magic beans
be regarded as "unfair". And if not, what *exactly* is the concept of
"legal tender" ?

Legal tender is irrelevant to retail payments.

The idea that shop-keepers have to accept payment in the forms that
prospective customers want to use was pretty much scotched by
supermarkets and petrol stations deciding to stop taking cheques, even
when backed by cheque cards, which precipitated the end of the cheque
card scheme. * * Booking and paying for a hotel room without a card
would be close to impossible, I suspect, although I've never tried it,
and that's a service offered to the general public.

You could pay a deposit by Giro transfer, it is common in Germany, I
believe you can even book Ryanair ticket by this method. With Faster
Payments it would be feasible in the UK as well. One problem is that
you cannot use it to guarantee a room, you actually have to make a
payment.

On May 30, 9:19*pm, S wrote:

You could pay a deposit by Giro transfer

Yes, online banking works as a replacement for debit cards. How
large is the set of people who have access to online banking, but do
not have debit cards?

ian

Yes, online banking works as a replacement for debit cards. How
large is the set of people who have access to online banking, but do
not have debit cards?

Potentially anyone with an HSBC 'Basic' bank account which only provides
an ATM card but allows internet banking.

On May 31, 11:37*am, Graham Murray wrote:
Yes, online banking works as a replacement for debit cards. * How
large is the set of people who have access to online banking, but do
not have debit cards?

Potentially anyone with an HSBC 'Basic' bank account which only provides
an ATM card but allows internet banking.

Interesting. The Lloyds, Nat West and Barclays equivalents provide a
debit card, so this would seem to fit into the category of "weird edge
case". Presumably anyone eligible for this would be eligible for
another operator's equivalent.

ian

On 31/05/2012 14:32, ian batten wrote:

On May 31, 11:37 am, Graham wrote:
Yes, online banking works as a replacement for debit cards. How
large is the set of people who have access to online banking, but do
not have debit cards?

Potentially anyone with an HSBC 'Basic' bank account which only provides
an ATM card but allows internet banking.

Interesting. The Lloyds, Nat West and Barclays equivalents provide a
debit card, so this would seem to fit into the category of "weird edge
case". Presumably anyone eligible for this would be eligible for
another operator's equivalent.

ATM-only cards also exist for the Santander Basic Current Account, First
Trust Bank's Basic Bank Account and Bank of Ireland's Basic Cash Account
(as well as various savings accounts).

On May 30, 9:40*pm, ian batten wrote:
On May 30, 9:19*pm, S wrote:

You could pay a deposit by Giro transfer

Yes, online banking works as a replacement for debit cards. * How
large is the set of people who have access to online banking, but do
not have debit cards?


You don't even need online banking, you can even go to a branch. It is
not just what people can do, but what they prefer, and it seems that
in Germany there are enough people who prefer to pay by bank transfer
that it is offered as an option on many websites. Reasons apart from
the lack of debit card can include security, if you make a bank
transfer, the merchant won't be able to debit your account, your bank
account number is safe; from the merchant's point of view, he only
needs a bank account to accept payments, which he would have anyway,
and there are no extra processing costs.

(Just found this one unaddressed on a trawl.)

Lew 1 wrote:

While doing this, you would have to be careful not to jangle the other
coins in your pocket. That would give the lie to your claim of having
only 5p.

You could plead coppers, which I can't recall PTTs or TVMs taking.
Alternatively use a wallet with a tight coin compartment or a separate
coin
holder.

That you have obviously thought about this worries me a little. ;-)

Could you successfully argue that any remaining change you had was needed
for a bus journey at your destination? Is the requirement to give all
change you have, or all change you can spare?

I believe the formal requirement is all the change you have and your
non-railway requirements are irrelevant. That said staff at the destination
would probably be reasonably sympathetic to the situation as they're likely
to know if the local buses have exact change only requirements. With staff
at interchanges or on the trains it would be more pot luck.

Another situation that springs to mind is the potential for someone to turn
up with a card only to find the card machine is out of order and they have
no coins for a PTT if the machine is there. (The PTTs also predate the
widespread use of cards in machines, particularly outside the biggest
stations, and I'm guessing the wording quoted elsewhere on the thread hasn't
changed since those days.) I've got a feeling the wording of the CoC
basically expects all card relying passengers to carry some coins on them as
back-ups but it could be messy (and possibly ruled unfair conditions?) if
the regular method of purchase and the emergency back-up are using
completely separate methods of payment.

--
My blog: http://adf.ly/4hi4c

On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 01:47:11 +0100, Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:

Another situation that springs to mind is the potential for someone to
turn up with a card only to find the card machine is out of order and
they have no coins for a PTT if the machine is there. (The PTTs also
predate the widespread use of cards in machines, particularly outside
the biggest stations, and I'm guessing the wording quoted elsewhere on
the thread hasn't changed since those days.) I've got a feeling the
wording of the CoC basically expects all card relying passengers to
carry some coins on them as back-ups but it could be messy (and possibly
ruled unfair conditions?) if the regular method of purchase and the
emergency back-up are using completely separate methods of payment.

Last summer I went to Fratton to catch a train to Chichester. I wanted
PlusBus, Fratton TO was closed and the TVMs couldn't sell PlusBus.

The PORTIS (are they still called that) that the conductor / guard on the
train was carrying wouldn't accept my electron card (the account requires
immediate bank validation for all transactions), so I had to buy the
return ticket from Fratton to Chichester PlusBus at Chichester and then
hand the outward portion to the Chichester barrier staff.

So, I guess the system works.

Rgds

Denis McMahon