On 2012\08\17 10:42, Richard J. wrote:
Basil Jet wrote on 15 August 2012
15:42:03 ...
Maxwell J Roberts, formerly of this parish, has a new-ish book out.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Underground-...pr_product_top


I've only seen the cover in the window of the LT Museum, so can't
comment.

If you scroll down to near the bottom of that Amazon web page, there's a
long and enthusiastic review by Douglas Rose of this book, which is, he
says, "not a book about Underground maps - the real messages are far
wider. The sub-title of the book `Explorations in Information Design' is
what it is really about."

Sounds interesting, but £45 is a bit steep.


As we approach the point where everyone has a smart-phone, we might
reach the situation where the cost of designing, printing and
distributing the tube-map exceeds its utility, and we might then see the
last tube-map. Regular passengers know that certain system breakdowns
are best dealt with by leaving the system and getting a bus, and there's
just no way that static information design can encapsulate all the
information that you really need to use the tube system.

Any organisation should be embarrassed to be displaying information
which is inferior to what people have on a device in their pocket made
by someone else. Also, the current system of having enamel maps down on
the platforms telling you what tracks have been built, and paper maps on
an easel up in the ticket office telling you what tracks actually have
trains on them today, is a bit of an anachronism.

On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 15:53:55 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
As we approach the point where everyone has a smart-phone, we might

Who is "everyone"? I don't, most of my family don't, a lot of my friends
don't. Don't confuse teenagers and hipsters with "everyone".

by someone else. Also, the current system of having enamel maps down on
the platforms telling you what tracks have been built, and paper maps on

Are you trolling? Are you seriously suggesting that having to find a website
or app then starting it up and trying to view it on a tinky winky 4 inch
screen is easier than just looking at a huge metre square map on a wall?
I don't want to be in the position of having to purchase some overpriced
iToy that I don't need just to be able to get basic information in a city.

B2003

wrote:

Are you trolling? Are you seriously suggesting that having to find a website
or app then starting it up and trying to view it on a tinky winky 4 inch
screen is easier than just looking at a huge metre square map on a wall?
I don't want to be in the position of having to purchase some overpriced
iToy that I don't need just to be able to get basic information in a city.

Perhaps borrow one for a bit. I said a while ago that journey planners
were the best thing that ever happened to public transport. Add a
smartphone, and it truly is a "killer app". Try it before you reject the
idea totally.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply.

On 20 Aug 2012 09:59:13 GMT
Neil Williams wrote:
Perhaps borrow one for a bit. I said a while ago that journey planners
were the best thing that ever happened to public transport. Add a
smartphone, and it truly is a "killer app". Try it before you reject the
idea totally.

I'm not buying a smartphone just to read a map. Navigating a metro system
is hardly rocket science. A map on a wall is all anyone needs unless they're
terminally stupid and need to be spoon fed even the simplest information.

B2003

On Aug 20, 11:22*am, wrote:
I'm not buying a smartphone just to read a map. Navigating a metro system
is hardly rocket science. A map on a wall is all anyone needs unless they're
terminally stupid and need to be spoon fed even the simplest information.

Boltar

I don't always agree with your sentiments, but in this case I think
you are right. Relatively speaking, it is cheap and easy for maps to
be posted up on the walls in various strategic places (platforms, for
example), where a quick glance "I need to go down there a bit, then
over there a bit" tells the traveller enough.

By all means have a technological solution *as well*, but not
*instead*.

PhilD

--

On 20/08/2012 20:14, PhilD wrote:
On Aug 20, 11:22 am, wrote:
I'm not buying a smartphone just to read a map. Navigating a metro system
is hardly rocket science. A map on a wall is all anyone needs unless they're
terminally stupid and need to be spoon fed even the simplest information.

Boltar

I don't always agree with your sentiments, but in this case I think
you are right. Relatively speaking, it is cheap and easy for maps to
be posted up on the walls in various strategic places (platforms, for
example), where a quick glance "I need to go down there a bit, then
over there a bit" tells the traveller enough.

That works if there is a turn-up and go service everywhere, or the map
shows details like "runs every half hour", "match days only", "no
service on St Fred's day", etc, and the passenger has a way of finding
out when those things are.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 07:57:59 +0100
Arthur Figgis wrote:
I don't always agree with your sentiments, but in this case I think
you are right. Relatively speaking, it is cheap and easy for maps to
be posted up on the walls in various strategic places (platforms, for
example), where a quick glance "I need to go down there a bit, then
over there a bit" tells the traveller enough.

That works if there is a turn-up and go service everywhere, or the map

Is there a metro system in the world that isn't turn up and go?

B2003

On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 10:22:39AM +0000, d wrote:
On 20 Aug 2012 09:59:13 GMT
Neil Williams wrote:
Perhaps borrow one for a bit. I said a while ago that journey planners
were the best thing that ever happened to public transport. Add a
smartphone, and it truly is a "killer app". Try it before you reject the
idea totally.
I'm not buying a smartphone just to read a map. Navigating a metro system
is hardly rocket science. A map on a wall is all anyone needs unless they're
terminally stupid and need to be spoon fed even the simplest information.

If you'd actually used a journey planner, you would know that you are
talking about something completely different. A mere map can't include
all the buses, or know how frequent they are, and how frequent all the
trains are, or which lines are open, and so be able to find the best
route for you across all modes of transport and tell you how long it'll
take (kinda important for when you have to get from your hotel to the
station to get your train home), taking into account your preferences
for number of changes, how far to walk etc.

Add to that travelling in a foreign country, where you might not be able
to read things like "this station is closed at weekends" or "北京地�",
and you will see that an application running on your phone in your
language is clearly better than a map.

I recommend this one http://metro.nanika.net/.

--
David Cantrell | Reality Engineer, Ministry of Information

Your call is important to me. To see if it's important to
you I'm going to make you wait on hold for five minutes.
All calls are recorded for blackmail and amusement purposes.

On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 11:57:15 +0100
David Cantrell wrote:
If you'd actually used a journey planner, you would know that you are
talking about something completely different. A mere map can't include
all the buses, or know how frequent they are, and how frequent all the
trains are, or which lines are open, and so be able to find the best
route for you across all modes of transport and tell you how long it'll
take (kinda important for when you have to get from your hotel to the
station to get your train home), taking into account your preferences
for number of changes, how far to walk etc.

You're assuming any information you'll get on your phone will be up to date.
Having used travel websites myself I suspect the chances of that always
being the case are slim.

Add to that travelling in a foreign country, where you might not be able
to read things like "this station is closed at weekends" or "北京地�",
and you will see that an application running on your phone in your
language is clearly better than a map.

Fine, but that means you're relying on a device that could be lost, stolen,
have no connection or a flat battery. Then what? Pidgin english with the
nearest local who looks like he might know when the next bus shows?

B2003

On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 11:21:55AM +0000, d wrote:
On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 11:57:15 +0100
David Cantrell wrote:
If you'd actually used a journey planner, you would know that you are
talking about something completely different. A mere map can't include
all the buses, or know how frequent they are, and how frequent all the
trains are, or which lines are open, and so be able to find the best
route for you across all modes of transport and tell you how long it'll
take (kinda important for when you have to get from your hotel to the
station to get your train home), taking into account your preferences
for number of changes, how far to walk etc.
You're assuming any information you'll get on your phone will be up to date.

It has been every time I've used the application I recommended, and if
it turns out that, for example, the Northern line is closed, then I can
just tell the application to not use it.

Add to that travelling in a foreign country, where you might not be able
to read things like "this station is closed at weekends" or "北京地�",
and you will see that an application running on your phone in your
language is clearly better than a map.
Fine, but that means you're relying on a device that could be lost

That's your own stupid fault

stolen,

As is that, usually.

have no connection

Not likely in any place with a significant transport network.

or a flat battery.

I forget when was the last time I was foolish enough to let my phone's
battery run out when I needed it. Years ago, at any rate.

Then what? Pidgin english with the
nearest local who looks like he might know when the next bus shows?

Sure. That might even work when *you* are lost abroad and don't speak
the local language, because so many people speak English to some
degree. It won't work when a Chinese tourist who doesn't speak English
is lost in London, where no-one (yeah, yeah) speaks Chinese.

--
David Cantrell | Reality Engineer, Ministry of Information

Compromise: n: lowering my standards so you can meet them