On Thu, 23 Aug 2012 14:30:07 +0100
"Graham J" wrote:
I was just wondering what the factors are that makes Highbury different from
other two platform terminals with higher service levels, e.g. Brixton on the
Victoria Line. That's a genuine question by the way, I am sure they are

The victoria line is driven by computer. The "driver" just does the doors.
Tells you all you need to know really.

B2003

On 2012-08-23 13:30:07 +0000, Graham J said:


To run the whole service reliably (and it's designed for up to 18 or even 20
tph ultimately) with adequate turnround times and margins you'd need a
four platform station at Highbury, and there isn't room.

I was just wondering what the factors are that makes Highbury different
from other two platform terminals with higher service levels, e.g.
Brixton on the Victoria Line.

Surely it's that we're talking about a very different line that's not
provisioned to run at the same frequency owing to volumes. At present
trains run every 7-8 minutes from Highbury, and every five minutes from
Dalston Jnction (going south). This is very similar to a lot of metro
lines in other big cities on the continent. You can wait longer at
Whitechapel for an H&C train.

I'm sure there are technical reasons too - these are bigger, havier
trains that i expect do not work like tube trains.

E.

"Graham J" wrote in message ...

To run the whole service reliably (and it's designed for up to 18 or even
20
tph ultimately) with adequate turnround times and margins you'd need a
four platform station at Highbury, and there isn't room.

I was just wondering what the factors are that makes Highbury different
from other two platform terminals with higher service levels, e.g. Brixton
on the Victoria Line. That's a genuine question by the way, I am sure
they are many and various but I don't really know what they are. Paul has
already suggested that something as simple as the distance to the scissors
crossover would be one factor (assuming it couldn't have been placed
somewhere else). I wouldn't be surprised if something like passengers
tending to wait around on the platforms for a direct train instead of
taking the first one and then waiting further down the line would be a
factor too.

I don't know what the theoretical capacity of the 2 platforms at Highbury is
but even if it was possible to run more trains, it would not necessarily be
desirable. At the moment trains have a booked 10 minute turn around time
which in most cases means a late running arrival will be able to leave on
time. Cutting this would make the line as a whole less reliable.

In the case of the Victoria Line the main priority is frequency, it doesn't
really matter if every train is 10 minutes late leaving Brixton as long as
they are leaving every 2 minutes. On the ELL with a range of different
destinations and interworking with other NR services, punctuality is much
more important.

Peter Smyth

On 22/08/2012 16:10, Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
In message , d writes

When I left the Picc nearly 2 years ago (how time flys!) most of the
'fast' had been upgraded and all TSRs removed. I think it's all up to
scratch now.

"Fast" obviously means something different in the piccadilly line control
room in that case. I doubt we went above 30mph on my recent trip along
that
section.

Fast as in the fast line as opposed to the local line which I am more
familiar with these days, not the actual speeds travelled but the
nomenclature.

Maybe the train that was moving at 30 miles had signals against it?

On Thursday, 23 August 2012 22:22:46 UTC+1, wrote:
On 22/08/2012 16:10, Steve Fitzgerald wrote:

In message , d writes



When I left the Picc nearly 2 years ago (how time flys!) most of the

'fast' had been upgraded and all TSRs removed. I think it's all up to

scratch now.



"Fast" obviously means something different in the piccadilly line control

room in that case. I doubt we went above 30mph on my recent trip along

that

section.



Fast as in the fast line as opposed to the local line which I am more

familiar with these days, not the actual speeds travelled but the

nomenclature.



Maybe the train that was moving at 30 miles had signals against it?

I think you are right about the picc the Metropolitan is just as bad why advertise "fast" trains when they do 40mph it doesnt make any sense! It seems to me to be very deceptive !

On 23/08/2012 22:40, yameste wrote:
On Thursday, 23 August 2012 22:22:46 UTC+1, wrote:
On 22/08/2012 16:10, Steve Fitzgerald wrote:

In message , d writes



When I left the Picc nearly 2 years ago (how time flys!) most of the

'fast' had been upgraded and all TSRs removed. I think it's all up to

scratch now.



"Fast" obviously means something different in the piccadilly line control

room in that case. I doubt we went above 30mph on my recent trip along

that

section.



Fast as in the fast line as opposed to the local line which I am more

familiar with these days, not the actual speeds travelled but the

nomenclature.



Maybe the train that was moving at 30 miles had signals against it?

I think you are right about the picc the Metropolitan is just as bad why advertise "fast" trains when they do 40mph it doesnt make any sense! It seems to me to be very deceptive !


Fast trains in that they are not stopping at all stations on the line,
not necessarily in terms of speed. I have actually not noticed that
Metropolitan Line trains frequently have signals against them between
Baker Street and points west.

Furthermore, it seems that the S8s are moving at close to 60 miles on
the western extremities of the line, such as between Chalfont & Latimer
and Rickmansworth. They also do not appear to be moving too slowly
between Wembley Park and Finchley Road in either direction. Fast trains
also move quite quickly between Finchley Road and Harrow-on-the-Hill.

wrote in message ...
On 23/08/2012 22:40, yameste wrote:
On Thursday, 23 August 2012 22:22:46 UTC+1, wrote:
On 22/08/2012 16:10, Steve Fitzgerald wrote:

In message , d
writes



When I left the Picc nearly 2 years ago (how time flys!) most of the

'fast' had been upgraded and all TSRs removed. I think it's all up
to

scratch now.



"Fast" obviously means something different in the piccadilly line
control

room in that case. I doubt we went above 30mph on my recent trip along

that

section.



Fast as in the fast line as opposed to the local line which I am more

familiar with these days, not the actual speeds travelled but the

nomenclature.



Maybe the train that was moving at 30 miles had signals against it?

I think you are right about the picc the Metropolitan is just as bad why
advertise "fast" trains when they do 40mph it doesnt make any sense! It
seems to me to be very deceptive !


Fast trains in that they are not stopping at all stations on the line, not
necessarily in terms of speed. I have actually not noticed that
Metropolitan Line trains frequently have signals against them between
Baker Street and points west.

Furthermore, it seems that the S8s are moving at close to 60 miles on the
western extremities of the line, such as between Chalfont & Latimer and
Rickmansworth. They also do not appear to be moving too slowly between
Wembley Park and Finchley Road in either direction. Fast trains also move
quite quickly between Finchley Road and Harrow-on-the-Hill.



I've always wondered what speed the Picc trains manage between Hammersmith
and Acton Town. They can move about in a very lively fashion (doesn't
matter if it is the current stock or the preceding stock). The prewar
stock seemed slightly less lively but that may be the memory of a ten year
old playing tricks. But, as for speed, I'm not sure they've ever gone
terribly fast (40mph?)

On 26/08/2012 16:39, Graham Harrison wrote:

wrote in message
...
On 23/08/2012 22:40, yameste wrote:
On Thursday, 23 August 2012 22:22:46 UTC+1, wrote:
On 22/08/2012 16:10, Steve Fitzgerald wrote:

In message ,
d writes



When I left the Picc nearly 2 years ago (how time flys!) most of the

'fast' had been upgraded and all TSRs removed. I think it's all
up to

scratch now.



"Fast" obviously means something different in the piccadilly line
control

room in that case. I doubt we went above 30mph on my recent trip
along

that

section.



Fast as in the fast line as opposed to the local line which I am more

familiar with these days, not the actual speeds travelled but the

nomenclature.



Maybe the train that was moving at 30 miles had signals against it?

I think you are right about the picc the Metropolitan is just as bad
why advertise "fast" trains when they do 40mph it doesnt make any
sense! It seems to me to be very deceptive !


Fast trains in that they are not stopping at all stations on the line,
not necessarily in terms of speed. I have actually not noticed that
Metropolitan Line trains frequently have signals against them between
Baker Street and points west.

Furthermore, it seems that the S8s are moving at close to 60 miles on
the western extremities of the line, such as between Chalfont &
Latimer and Rickmansworth. They also do not appear to be moving too
slowly between Wembley Park and Finchley Road in either direction.
Fast trains also move quite quickly between Finchley Road and
Harrow-on-the-Hill.



I've always wondered what speed the Picc trains manage between
Hammersmith and Acton Town. They can move about in a very lively
fashion (doesn't matter if it is the current stock or the preceding
stock). The prewar stock seemed slightly less lively but that may be
the memory of a ten year old playing tricks. But, as for speed, I'm
not sure they've ever gone terribly fast (40mph?)

Maybe a little faster, such as 45 miles. I base that on my own
observations at Turnham Green, though I have seen trains also just coast
their way through there.

On 26/08/2012 17:14, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 16:39:39 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
wrote:

I've always wondered what speed the Picc trains manage between Hammersmith
and Acton Town. They can move about in a very lively fashion (doesn't
matter if it is the current stock or the preceding stock). The prewar
stock seemed slightly less lively but that may be the memory of a ten year
old playing tricks. But, as for speed, I'm not sure they've ever gone
terribly fast (40mph?)

I had a cab ride on that section many many years ago and can recall it
being a tad bouncy on the second seat! Can't recall how fast we went.

On my very first day back with LU (having finished my degree) I do
recall an A Stock cab ride at 70 mph coming back in from a visit to
Amersham. Great fun.


I remember that they governed down speeds on the A stocks to about 50
miles, after discovering microcracks in the bogies.

Like I said, though, it has been my impression that the S8s do not move
slowly between Chalfont & Latimer and Ricky, as well as between Wembley
Park and Finchley Road.

Haven't had the pleasure of riding any fast trains out to Amersham, but
will do so soon.

Graham Harrison wrote on 26
August 2012 16:39:39 ...

wrote in message ...
On 23/08/2012 22:40, yameste wrote:
On Thursday, 23 August 2012 22:22:46 UTC+1, wrote:
On 22/08/2012 16:10, Steve Fitzgerald wrote:

In message , d
writes



When I left the Picc nearly 2 years ago (how time flys!) most of the
'fast' had been upgraded and all TSRs removed. I think it's all up
to scratch now.

"Fast" obviously means something different in the piccadilly line
control room in that case. I doubt we went above 30mph on my recent
trip along that section.

Fast as in the fast line as opposed to the local line which I am more
familiar with these days, not the actual speeds travelled but the
nomenclature.

Maybe the train that was moving at 30 miles had signals against it?

I think you are right about the picc the Metropolitan is just as bad why
advertise "fast" trains when they do 40mph it doesnt make any sense! It
seems to me to be very deceptive !

Fast trains in that they are not stopping at all stations on the line,
not necessarily in terms of speed. I have actually not noticed that
Metropolitan Line trains frequently have signals against them between
Baker Street and points west.

Furthermore, it seems that the S8s are moving at close to 60 miles on the
western extremities of the line, such as between Chalfont & Latimer and
Rickmansworth. They also do not appear to be moving too slowly between
Wembley Park and Finchley Road in either direction. Fast trains also move
quite quickly between Finchley Road and Harrow-on-the-Hill.

I've always wondered what speed the Picc trains manage between Hammersmith
and Acton Town. They can move about in a very lively fashion (doesn't
matter if it is the current stock or the preceding stock). The prewar
stock seemed slightly less lively but that may be the memory of a ten year
old playing tricks. But, as for speed, I'm not sure they've ever gone
terribly fast (40mph?)

The line speed is 45 mph. How "lively" they ride is largely a function
of track quality, so the recent renewals will have led to a smoother
ride, which might appear to be less fast.

However, westbound trains are liable to be caught up in the chronic
blocking back from Acton Town, which often contrives to be a bottleneck
despite having more platform capacity than the previous 20-odd stations.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)