When the London Overground extension to Clapham Junction opens -
currently estimated for December 2012 - what service frequency will be
provided? TfL's website declares that there will be four trains per hour
between Highbury And Islington and Clapham Junction, and goes on to
suggest that passengers should change at Surrey Quays for trains to
Crystal Palace or West Croydon. There is no mention of New Cross.
Does this indicate that trains will no longer run to New Cross?

The extension project is, typically for TfL, running late. Services were
originally due to start this summer. The website asserts that the
line is now operational and driver training is underway. Does it
really take several months to teach drivers how to drive a modern
train and to familiarise drivers with a short rail route?

There is also mention of a new station at Surrey Canal Road.
I'm not sure there is any need for a station there. I hope it will
not be like Haggerston and Hoxton, catering for noticeably fewer
passengers than other stations. The website admits that funding has
been granted and says that work will start in 2013 but will not be
completed until 2015! It takes 18 months or more to build one small
station?

On 2012-08-20 20:57:27 +0000, Robin9 said:

The extension project is, typically for TfL, running late. Services were
originally due to start this summer.

I don't think it was ever scheduled for earlier opening. The rest of
the ELL was ready ahead of or on schedule.

I hope it will not be like Haggerston and Hoxton, catering for
noticeably fewer
passengers than other stations.

There will always be less used stations. I'm sure traffic at these two
has been rising steadily.

E.

In message , Robin9
wrote:
and goes on to
suggest that passengers should change at Surrey Quays for trains to
Crystal Palace or West Croydon. There is no mention of New Cross.
Does this indicate that trains will no longer run to New Cross?

That suggests to me that they're shuffling the routes around: trains
from Highbury will run to Clapham Junction and New Cross, while those
from Dalston will run to Crystal Palace and West Croydon. So there would
never be any point in changing at Surrey Quays for New Cross.

(At present the NWX service is the one that terminates at Dalston, and
my last information was that the Clapham one would as well.)

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"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message
...

That suggests to me that they're shuffling the routes around: trains from
Highbury will run to Clapham Junction and New Cross, while those from
Dalston will run to Crystal Palace and West Croydon. So there would never
be any point in changing at Surrey Quays for New Cross.

(At present the NWX service is the one that terminates at Dalston, and my
last information was that the Clapham one would as well.)

www.opentraintimes.com has the December NR timetable loaded,
showing the routes will be as follows:

Highbury & Islington - Crystal Palace
Highbury & Islington - Clapham Jn
Dalston Jn - New Cross
Dalston Jn - West Croydon

http://www.opentraintimes.com/locati...0903&year=2012

(showing times at Surrey Quays.)

Paul S

Paul Corfield wrote:

When the ELL opens the current SLL
service into London Bridge will cease.

How many stations and passengers will lose a direct link? And is there a
simple interchange that will allow them to make those connections?

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On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 23:28:44 +0100
Paul Corfield wrote:
No, trains will still run to New Cross at 4 tph. All the other ELL
routes retain 4 tph so the new line takes the core frequency to 16
tph.

Pity they don't speed the trains up somewhat. Last time I got the ELL from
highbury it consisted off:

Wait at highbury for 5 mins.
Trundle at 20mph to Dalston junction.
Wait at Dalston junction for 2 mins.
Trundle at 20mph all the way to canada water.

Is there some rule saying that any decent speed is no longer allowed
on the tube/overground system? The only lines that have a decent turn
of speed these days is the victoria and central , everything else seems
to be semi comatose. Even the piccadilly line which used to fly along
from hammersmith to acton now potters along that section like some old
19th century country branch line in no particular hurry.

B2003

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 23:28:44 +0100

Pity they don't speed the trains up somewhat. Last time I got the ELL from
highbury it consisted off:

Wait at highbury for 5 mins.

Is that not typical at a terminus? Do you mean they were late against the
timetable, or that they didn't just set off as soon as you turned up?

Wait at Dalston junction for 2 mins.

There have to be various planned waits in the timetable, because of the
extra trains starting at Dalston Jn. If not people would no doubt complain
that the 8 tph north of Dalston Jn had unbalanced 10 min and 5 min gaps.

But once the 16 tph service south of Dalston Jn starts, there'll be no need
to regulate the Highbury extensions this way, as they'll be alternating
trains using half the regular slots, so they can be a standard 7.5 mins
apart.

Paul S

On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 11:06:24 +0100
"Paul Scott" wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 23:28:44 +0100

Pity they don't speed the trains up somewhat. Last time I got the ELL from
highbury it consisted off:

Wait at highbury for 5 mins.

Is that not typical at a terminus? Do you mean they were late against the
timetable, or that they didn't just set off as soon as you turned up?

I was just factoring in all the waiting times I had. For all I know it could
have been sitting there 15 mins. If highbury was out in the sticks like epping
then fine, but its pretty busy hub close to central london and the service
frequency should be at least the equivalent of the tube in that area.

But once the 16 tph service south of Dalston Jn starts, there'll be no need
to regulate the Highbury extensions this way, as they'll be alternating
trains using half the regular slots, so they can be a standard 7.5 mins
apart.

The fact that the trains will only be 7.5 mins apart doesn't exactly shout high
frequency at me. High frequency for a metro is a train every 1 or 2 minutes.
TfL seem to want to pretend that the overground is a metro system yet run
it like a slightly uprated suburban line which isn't quite what was
promised when the ELL was taken away from LU.

B2003

wrote in message
...

The fact that the trains will only be 7.5 mins apart doesn't exactly shout
high
frequency at me. High frequency for a metro is a train every 1 or 2
minutes.
TfL seem to want to pretend that the overground is a metro system yet run
it like a slightly uprated suburban line which isn't quite what was
promised when the ELL was taken away from LU.

I don't believe TfL ever promised anything of the sort, and most definitely
not what you describe. 8 tph max end to end in the peaks (on the NLL) is
actually an improvement over the original proposed timetable - which would
only have had 6 tph west of Camden Rd, with 2 tph from Stratford terminating
there.

Likewise the ELL service has never been described as anything higher than
'up to' 18 tph in the peak on the core section, and 8 tph between Highbury
and Dalston Jn.

Paul S

On 2012-08-21 15:05:37 +0000, Paul Scott said:

8 tph max end to end in the peaks (on the NLL) is actually an
improvement over the original proposed timetable - which would only
have had 6 tph west of Camden Rd, with 2 tph from Stratford terminating
there.

Likewise the ELL service has never been described as anything higher
than 'up to' 18 tph in the peak on the core section, and 8 tph between
Highbury and Dalston Jn.

Any idea why the NLL frequency is much lower than the ELL? The ELL is a
very handy service in my view - I rarely have to wait as long as 5 mins
at Dalston J. But I used the NLL yesterday morning at about 10.30 am
and it had a 10 minute service interval, and the trains are more
crowded anyway.

E.