"David Cantrell" wrote in message
k...
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 02:42:10PM +0100, tim..... wrote:

Someone must have considered it commercially viable (on say, a 40 year
timetable) as otherwise it wouldn't have been built.

Not necessarily. You can argue that the role of the state is to make
sure that socially beneficial things get done even if not commercially
viable, such as provision of Radio 4 and the original Dartford Tunnel.

I'm well aware that the government could have decided to build it as
socially necessary, but the start of this thread was Roland's comment that
its expansions was done by a commercial organisation because the local
councils would have ****ed it up.

And in order to evaluate that statement you have to assume that both parties
have a level playing field. It definitely shouldn't be the the case that
the commercial organisation was given a subsidy that would have been
unavailable to the LAs.

tim

In message , at 17:32:59 on Fri, 12
Oct 2012, tim..... remarked:

the start of this thread was Roland's comment that its expansions was
done by a commercial organisation because the local councils would have
****ed it up.

I didn't say that. The closest I came was saying that the original
project lost money, and the two councils would not have had the
resources to build the bridge. (Doubling the capacity for a second time,
quadrupling the original project).

Further: since the increased traffic was due to the M25, a government
project, and not increased use by Essex and Kent ratepayers, I think it
was right for the government to take over the responsibility (which they
then outsourced to a private company).
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:32:59 on Fri, 12 Oct
2012, tim..... remarked:

the start of this thread was Roland's comment that its expansions was done
by a commercial organisation because the local councils would have ****ed
it up.

I didn't say that. The closest I came was saying that the original project
lost money, and the two councils would not have had the resources to build
the bridge. (Doubling the capacity for a second time, quadrupling the
original project).

Construction of the first tunnel started in 1938. It was always seen as part
of a project to allow road traffic to bypass central London since at that
time the only alternative fixed river crossing designed for anything like
modern road traffic was Southwark Bridge.

Further: since the increased traffic was due to the M25, a government
project, and not increased use by Essex and Kent ratepayers, I think it
was right for the government to take over the responsibility (which they
then outsourced to a private company).

I understand there is a scheme that allows local users discounted use of the
crossing.

--
DAS

In message , at 23:12:44 on Sat, 13 Oct
2012, D A Stocks remarked:
The closest I came was saying that the original project lost money,
and the two councils would not have had the resources to build the
bridge. (Doubling the capacity for a second time, quadrupling the
original project).

Construction of the first tunnel started in 1938. It was always seen as
part of a project to allow road traffic to bypass central London since
at that time the only alternative fixed river crossing designed for
anything like modern road traffic was Southwark Bridge.

Before the Dartford Crossing we (as residents of Mid Essex) would
normally use the Blackwall Tunnel [doubled in 1967, so was under
construction at the same time as the first Dartford Tunnel], and
sometimes Rotherhithe Tunnel.

Further: since the increased traffic was due to the M25, a government
project, and not increased use by Essex and Kent ratepayers, I think
it was right for the government to take over the responsibility
(which they then outsourced to a private company).

I understand there is a scheme that allows local users discounted use
of the crossing.

Only from the most recent charging scheme (introduced in 2008), it's a
discounted DART-tag. (And all DART-tag users get 1/3 off the car cash
price).
--
Roland Perry

wrote in message
...
I heard on LBC this morning that apparently the toll gates will be gone by
2014
and a "free flow" system will be implemented. How does this work? Is
everyone
who every uses the bridge going to have to by an electronic tag or will
they
just do it by number plate recognition and send you a bill for 2 quid in
the
post? Or will they use ANPR to send you a fine of 100 quid if you don't
buy a tag (no doubt expensive) and just drive through?

Will probably be a free for all for foreign registered vehicles and
trucks.

well...

According to news out today, the system of collection will be "manual post
payment"

Quite frankly that sucks. In this era of modern technology that is what we
should be using, not a Noddy system that we could have implemented 20 years
ago.

Especially if they continue to make it free between 22:00 and 06:00. How
will someone know if they have snuck into the free period and thus don't
have to phone up to pay, or just missed it by a couple of seconds and do?

tim

In message , at 10:29:43 on Mon, 5 Nov
2012, tim..... remarked:
Especially if they continue to make it free between 22:00 and 06:00.
How will someone know if they have snuck into the free period and thus
don't have to phone up to pay, or just missed it by a couple of seconds
and do?

They could send that hat round for an illuminated sign informing road
users of the situation.
--
Roland Perry

On Mon, 5 Nov 2012 10:29:43 -0000
"tim....." wrote:
According to news out today, the system of collection will be "manual post
payment"

Quite frankly that sucks. In this era of modern technology that is what we
should be using, not a Noddy system that we could have implemented 20 years
ago.

In 2012 we shouldn't be paying for the damn thing at all. Both the bridge
and tunnel were paid off years ago.

B2003

On 05/11/2012 10:29, tim..... wrote:


well...

According to news out today, the system of collection will be "manual post
payment"

It will be both 'pre payment' and 'post payment'; DART-Tag accounts would
continue; also "a range of simple and convenient payment channels,
including as a minimum: payment by telephone, website, SMS, post, at retail
outlets"

http://assets.highways.gov.uk/consul...5B%2010%5D.pdf

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 10:29:43 on Mon, 5 Nov
2012, tim..... remarked:
Especially if they continue to make it free between 22:00 and 06:00. How
will someone know if they have snuck into the free period and thus don't
have to phone up to pay, or just missed it by a couple of seconds and do?

They could send that hat round for an illuminated sign informing road
users of the situation.

There's still the possibility of the sign changing the instant that you pass
it.

tim

In message , at 12:42:16 on Mon, 5 Nov
2012, tim..... remarked:
Especially if they continue to make it free between 22:00 and 06:00.
How will someone know if they have snuck into the free period and
thus don't have to phone up to pay, or just missed it by a couple of
seconds and do?

They could send that hat round for an illuminated sign informing road
users of the situation.

There's still the possibility of the sign changing the instant that you
pass it.

What happens now if you turn up at the toll booth one second before the
deadline?
--
Roland Perry