On 08/10/2012 11:19, Nick Finnigan wrote:
On 08/10/2012 10:52, tim..... wrote:

wrote in message
...
I heard on LBC this morning that apparently the toll gates will be gone
by 2014
and a "free flow" system will be implemented. How does this work? Is
everyone
who every uses the bridge going to have to by an electronic tag or
will they
just do it by number plate recognition and send you a bill for 2 quid
in the
post? Or will they use ANPR to send you a fine of 100 quid if you don't
buy a tag (no doubt expensive) and just drive through?

Will probably be a free for all for foreign registered vehicles and
trucks.

I think that this is new territory for everybody and that the system of
collecting is almost certainly going to evolve over time. Other
countries
are experimenting with free flow charging and no one system has proved to
be entirely satisfactory.

I'd say Norway had got beyond the experimental stage (and charge over
15 pounds for the Finnøy Tunnel). Apparently you buy a tag for 20
pounds, and pre-load it using a credit card. Visitors can pay at petrol
stations based on ANPR within 3 days, or wait for an invoice from Euro
Car Parks.

You can also pay online.

On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 11:13:36 +0000 (UTC), d
wrote:

On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 12:06:51 +0100
Nick Finnigan wrote:
On 08/10/2012 11:51, d wrote:
On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 11:19:20 +0100
Nick Finnigan wrote:
I'd say Norway had got beyond the experimental stage (and charge over 15
pounds for the Finnøy Tunnel). Apparently you buy a tag for 20 pounds, and
pre-load it using a credit card. Visitors can pay at petrol stations based
on ANPR within 3 days, or wait for an invoice from Euro Car Parks.

What happens if you take a UK reg vehicle over there and don't pay - do they
catch up with you?

ECP send you an invoice.

Are they a UK company? If not what can they do if you don't pay?

http://www.eurocarparks.com/about-us

In message , at 10:29:33 on Mon, 8 Oct
2012, d remarked:
I like the idea of that. Let the mugs pay and the rest of us drive over
the bridge that was paid for by tolls in 2003 after which Lying Labour said
the tolls would be removed. Naturally, being a cash cow they weren't.
And the tunnel was paid for by central government as per the rest of the road
system and should never have had tolls in the first place.

Going back 40 years to the original single-bore tunnel (funded jointly
by Kent and Essex CC), the tolls on that were supposed to stop as soon
as it had been paid for. At the time, however, they claimed the tolls
weren't even paying the interest on the capital.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 11:14:19 on Mon, 8 Oct
2012, d remarked:

So who did pay for them in 1963?

The two county councils.
--
Roland Perry

In article ,
Recliner wrote:
On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 11:13:36 +0000 (UTC), d
wrote:

On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 12:06:51 +0100
Nick Finnigan wrote:
On 08/10/2012 11:51, d wrote:
On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 11:19:20 +0100
Nick Finnigan wrote:
I'd say Norway had got beyond the experimental stage (and charge over 15
pounds for the Finnøy Tunnel). Apparently you buy a tag for 20 pounds, and
pre-load it using a credit card. Visitors can pay at petrol stations based
on ANPR within 3 days, or wait for an invoice from Euro Car Parks.

What happens if you take a UK reg vehicle over there and don't pay - do they
catch up with you?

ECP send you an invoice.

Are they a UK company? If not what can they do if you don't pay?

http://www.eurocarparks.com/about-us

A well known company in the UK for attempting to pursue massive charges
for the most trivial infractions in their car parks. Perhaps with the
clamp-down (sorry) on parking cowboys they may be branching out to claims
that are harder for people to contest.

Nick
--
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996

d wrote in :

On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 12:06:51 +0100
Nick Finnigan wrote:
On 08/10/2012 11:51, d wrote:
On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 11:19:20 +0100
Nick Finnigan wrote:
I'd say Norway had got beyond the experimental stage (and charge
over 15
pounds for the Finnøy Tunnel). Apparently you buy a tag for 20
pounds, and pre-load it using a credit card. Visitors can pay at
petrol stations based on ANPR within 3 days, or wait for an invoice
from Euro Car Parks.

What happens if you take a UK reg vehicle over there and don't pay -
do they catch up with you?

ECP send you an invoice.

Are they a UK company? If not what can they do if you don't pay?

Slightly strangely, it's a likely to be a civil matter which can be taken
up anywhere in the world. Effectively you have entered into a contract and
failed to meet your side of the bargain.

If it were a criminal offence and a resulting fine, it's much less widely
enforceable across borders, although there are now agreements between
various countries allowing them to enforce each others' traffic-related
fines.

Many parking 'fines' and the London Congestion Charge have been
decriminalised, partly for that reason.

Peter

--
|| Peter CS ~ Epsom ~ UK | pjcs02 [at] gmail.com |

On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 13:47:36 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:14:19 on Mon, 8 Oct
2012, d remarked:

So who did pay for them in 1963?

The two county councils.

Still government, not a private company.

B2003

"David Walters" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 10:52:05 +0100, tim.....
wrote:
It would help, of course, if all of the tolling systems used the same
method
so that once registered, for example, for auto payment of the congestion
charge you automatically get registered for the Dartford crossing (and
the
Severn crossing, the Humber bridge, Mersey tunnels, etc, etc), but it
will
be ages before the various agencies can agree upon that.

Personally, I think that "Europe" should get involved in developing a
common
system so that once I am registered in the UK I can freely drive on, for
example, an Austrian Autobahn without having to worry about where to buy
a
little sticker (or even: having to find out if I need to buy a little
sticker in the first place!).

Something like the European Electronic Toll Service? There is a little
about it at
http://www.highways.gov.uk/our-road-...olling-service


Um no!

It's the "one piece of electronic equipment " bit that fails my expectation

I was thinking of a system with zero pieces of electronic equipment (in the
car).

tim

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 08:37:21 +0000 (UTC), d
wrote:

I heard on LBC this morning that apparently the toll gates will be gone by
2014
and a "free flow" system will be implemented. How does this work? Is
everyone
who every uses the bridge going to have to by an electronic tag or will
they
just do it by number plate recognition and send you a bill for 2 quid in
the
post? Or will they use ANPR to send you a fine of 100 quid if you don't
buy a tag (no doubt expensive) and just drive through?

Will probably be a free for all for foreign registered vehicles and
trucks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_road_tolling

which implies that "leakage" might be be tolerated as being cheaper than
100% collection

This would be fine if the leakage is random, but IMHO it bloody well isn't
if it is systematically based upon country of registration

http://www.thalesgroup.com/Portfolio...ling_20080814/

And that's just about collecting the number plate IDs, not the money

tim

"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 08/10/2012 10:52, tim..... wrote:

wrote in message
...
I heard on LBC this morning that apparently the toll gates will be gone
by 2014
and a "free flow" system will be implemented. How does this work? Is
everyone
who every uses the bridge going to have to by an electronic tag or will
they
just do it by number plate recognition and send you a bill for 2 quid in
the
post? Or will they use ANPR to send you a fine of 100 quid if you don't
buy a tag (no doubt expensive) and just drive through?

Will probably be a free for all for foreign registered vehicles and
trucks.

I think that this is new territory for everybody and that the system of
collecting is almost certainly going to evolve over time. Other
countries
are experimenting with free flow charging and no one system has proved to
be entirely satisfactory.

I'd say Norway had got beyond the experimental stage (and charge over 15
pounds for the Finnøy Tunnel). Apparently you buy a tag for 20 pounds, and
pre-load it using a credit card. Visitors can pay at petrol stations based
on ANPR within 3 days, or wait for an invoice from Euro Car Parks.

I didn't mean that individual countries were experimenting, I meant that
each county has a different system, which they think is right for their
current circumstances, but which may not be right going forwards.

I note that the Norwegian system does not do away with manual payments,
which doesn't make it suitable as a solution where that is required.

tim