I heard on LBC this morning that apparently the toll gates will be gone by 2014
and a "free flow" system will be implemented. How does this work? Is everyone
who every uses the bridge going to have to by an electronic tag or will they
just do it by number plate recognition and send you a bill for 2 quid in the
post? Or will they use ANPR to send you a fine of 100 quid if you don't
buy a tag (no doubt expensive) and just drive through?

Will probably be a free for all for foreign registered vehicles and trucks.

B2003

wrote in message
...
I heard on LBC this morning that apparently the toll gates will be gone by
2014
and a "free flow" system will be implemented. How does this work? Is
everyone
who every uses the bridge going to have to by an electronic tag or will
they
just do it by number plate recognition and send you a bill for 2 quid in
the
post? Or will they use ANPR to send you a fine of 100 quid if you don't
buy a tag (no doubt expensive) and just drive through?

Will probably be a free for all for foreign registered vehicles and
trucks.

I think that this is new territory for everybody and that the system of
collecting is almost certainly going to evolve over time. Other countries
are experimenting with free flow charging and no one system has proved to be
entirely satisfactory. Most seem to work on a pre-payment "honesty" basis
with police enforcement and fines if they catch you where you haven't paid
to be, but that isn't going to work here.

It will have to be enforced by ANPR but there is also going to have to be a
mechanism for people to "automatically" pay without them having to have a
tag in the car.

I suspect that some sort of pre-registration of a payment method, as is now
available for the congestion charge, will have to be used for people who use
the crossing many times a year (but not enough to "invest" in a tag), but
that's not going to work for the once-in-a-lifetime users.

It would help, of course, if all of the tolling systems used the same method
so that once registered, for example, for auto payment of the congestion
charge you automatically get registered for the Dartford crossing (and the
Severn crossing, the Humber bridge, Mersey tunnels, etc, etc), but it will
be ages before the various agencies can agree upon that.

Personally, I think that "Europe" should get involved in developing a common
system so that once I am registered in the UK I can freely drive on, for
example, an Austrian Autobahn without having to worry about where to buy a
little sticker (or even: having to find out if I need to buy a little
sticker in the first place!).

On the down side of this, this will mean that there is far less of a barrier
to entry for new charges to be introduced, as if everybody is already
registered with a nationwide auto-payment system, there will be no need to
put one in place for this new piece of road that you are considering
building :-(.

As to foreigners, this is going to be an issue of HMG's willingness to
enforce. There is already a mechanism in place where foreigners can be
billed in they own country by a local agency (who get to keep the money) and
many other countries do indeed do this for Brits (and others) using their
auto tolled roads, but HMG doesn't seem to be interested in doing this
(BICBW).

Perhaps we could start an online petition to ensure that whatever is done on
the Crossing foreigners don't "get away with it"!

tim

On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 10:52:05 +0100, tim..... wrote:
It would help, of course, if all of the tolling systems used the same method
so that once registered, for example, for auto payment of the congestion
charge you automatically get registered for the Dartford crossing (and the
Severn crossing, the Humber bridge, Mersey tunnels, etc, etc), but it will
be ages before the various agencies can agree upon that.

Personally, I think that "Europe" should get involved in developing a common
system so that once I am registered in the UK I can freely drive on, for
example, an Austrian Autobahn without having to worry about where to buy a
little sticker (or even: having to find out if I need to buy a little
sticker in the first place!).

Something like the European Electronic Toll Service? There is a little
about it at http://www.highways.gov.uk/our-road-...olling-service

On 08/10/2012 10:52, tim..... wrote:

wrote in message
...
I heard on LBC this morning that apparently the toll gates will be gone
by 2014
and a "free flow" system will be implemented. How does this work? Is
everyone
who every uses the bridge going to have to by an electronic tag or will they
just do it by number plate recognition and send you a bill for 2 quid in the
post? Or will they use ANPR to send you a fine of 100 quid if you don't
buy a tag (no doubt expensive) and just drive through?

Will probably be a free for all for foreign registered vehicles and trucks.

I think that this is new territory for everybody and that the system of
collecting is almost certainly going to evolve over time. Other countries
are experimenting with free flow charging and no one system has proved to
be entirely satisfactory.

I'd say Norway had got beyond the experimental stage (and charge over 15
pounds for the Finnøy Tunnel). Apparently you buy a tag for 20 pounds, and
pre-load it using a credit card. Visitors can pay at petrol stations based
on ANPR within 3 days, or wait for an invoice from Euro Car Parks.

On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 10:52:05 +0100
"tim....." wrote:
entirely satisfactory. Most seem to work on a pre-payment "honesty" basis

I like the idea of that. Let the mugs pay and the rest of us drive over
the bridge that was paid for by tolls in 2003 after which Lying Labour said
the tolls would be removed. Naturally, being a cash cow they weren't.
And the tunnel was paid for by central government as per the rest of the road
system and should never have had tolls in the first place.

It will have to be enforced by ANPR but there is also going to have to be a
mechanism for people to "automatically" pay without them having to have a
tag in the car.

They mentioned something about a single toll both remaining. Didn't catch
all of it though.

charge you automatically get registered for the Dartford crossing (and the
Severn crossing, the Humber bridge, Mersey tunnels, etc, etc), but it will
be ages before the various agencies can agree upon that.

IMO opinion all these agencies should be dissolved the tolls removed anyway.
Its amusing how they pretend they're doing us a favour by making it easier
to pay for something we shouldn't have to pay a toll for in the first place.

Personally, I think that "Europe" should get involved in developing a common

No thanks! They can keep their noses out of it.

billed in they own country by a local agency (who get to keep the money) and
many other countries do indeed do this for Brits (and others) using their

I've been done by a speed camera in france, haven't had a ticket yet. Got
a parking ticket in guernsey once , reminder turned up , I just ignored it
and never heard from them again. Perhaps I've just been lucky.

auto tolled roads, but HMG doesn't seem to be interested in doing this
(BICBW).

When half the foreign trucks seem to be registered in eastern europe these
days it would be a brave civil servant to try and enforce payment over there.

Perhaps we could start an online petition to ensure that whatever is done on
the Crossing foreigners don't "get away with it"!

I doubt the government cares so long as they can screw citizens over here for
even more tax money.

B2003

On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 11:19:20 +0100
Nick Finnigan wrote:
I'd say Norway had got beyond the experimental stage (and charge over 15
pounds for the Finnøy Tunnel). Apparently you buy a tag for 20 pounds, and
pre-load it using a credit card. Visitors can pay at petrol stations based
on ANPR within 3 days, or wait for an invoice from Euro Car Parks.

What happens if you take a UK reg vehicle over there and don't pay - do they
catch up with you?

B2003

On 08/10/2012 11:51, d wrote:
On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 11:19:20 +0100
Nick Finnigan wrote:
I'd say Norway had got beyond the experimental stage (and charge over 15
pounds for the Finnøy Tunnel). Apparently you buy a tag for 20 pounds, and
pre-load it using a credit card. Visitors can pay at petrol stations based
on ANPR within 3 days, or wait for an invoice from Euro Car Parks.

What happens if you take a UK reg vehicle over there and don't pay - do they
catch up with you?

ECP send you an invoice.

On 08/10/2012 11:29, d wrote:
On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 10:52:05 +0100

And the tunnel was paid for by central government as per the rest of the road
system and should never have had tolls in the first place.

The tunnels were neither built nor paid for by central government.

On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 12:06:51 +0100
Nick Finnigan wrote:
On 08/10/2012 11:51, d wrote:
On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 11:19:20 +0100
Nick Finnigan wrote:
I'd say Norway had got beyond the experimental stage (and charge over 15
pounds for the Finnøy Tunnel). Apparently you buy a tag for 20 pounds, and
pre-load it using a credit card. Visitors can pay at petrol stations based
on ANPR within 3 days, or wait for an invoice from Euro Car Parks.

What happens if you take a UK reg vehicle over there and don't pay - do they
catch up with you?

ECP send you an invoice.

Are they a UK company? If not what can they do if you don't pay?

B2003

On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 12:09:54 +0100
Nick Finnigan wrote:
On 08/10/2012 11:29, d wrote:
On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 10:52:05 +0100

And the tunnel was paid for by central government as per the rest of the road
system and should never have had tolls in the first place.

The tunnels were neither built nor paid for by central government.

So who did pay for them in 1963? Private finance in the early 60s? Pretty
bloody unlikely.

B2003