"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message
...
On 06/11/2012 14:58, tim..... wrote:

Why announce (now) a load of low tech, inconvenient, methods of paying if
you know that you are going to introduce a better one a few weeks later?

Because many people will want the options.

I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be a manual payment option.

I'm arguing that it shouldn't be the only option for casual users who don't
see the benefit of a DART tag (or for those whose tag has run out of
credit).

ISTM that if we are to have a database of registrations of car number
plates to credit/debit card accounts for post payment of tolls there
should
be one national database for every toll that is collected (by a
government
agency) this way (not a separate one for Dartford and another one for
London CC etc), so it will be easy for anyone who thinks that they might
want to use a tolled road somewhere in the country to know that they
ought
to register, just in case.

That is about 20% of the population.

So the only people who it won't work for a

a) people who want to cheat the system by driving through and not paying

b) A small section of the population who really didn't get to hear about
it.

c) almost everybody.

don't be stupid.

tim

"tim....." writes:

"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message
...
On 06/11/2012 14:58, tim..... wrote:

Why announce (now) a load of low tech, inconvenient, methods of paying if
you know that you are going to introduce a better one a few weeks later?

Because many people will want the options.

I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be a manual payment option.

I'm arguing that it shouldn't be the only option for casual users who
don't see the benefit of a DART tag (or for those whose tag has run
out of credit).

ISTM that if we are to have a database of registrations of car number
plates to credit/debit card accounts for post payment of tolls
there should
be one national database for every toll that is collected (by a
government
agency) this way (not a separate one for Dartford and another one for
London CC etc), so it will be easy for anyone who thinks that they might
want to use a tolled road somewhere in the country to know that
they ought
to register, just in case.

That is about 20% of the population.

So the only people who it won't work for a

a) people who want to cheat the system by driving through and not paying

b) A small section of the population who really didn't get to hear
about it.

c) almost everybody.

don't be stupid.

Why stupid, most people do not use any sort of toll road on a regular
basis. And many occasional users of the Dartford Crossing are not going
home that day and any internet payment is likely to incur data roaming
charges.

Phil

"tim....." writes:

"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message
...
On 06/11/2012 14:58, tim..... wrote:

Why announce (now) a load of low tech, inconvenient, methods of paying if
you know that you are going to introduce a better one a few weeks later?

Because many people will want the options.

I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be a manual payment option.

I'm arguing that it shouldn't be the only option for casual users who
don't see the benefit of a DART tag (or for those whose tag has run
out of credit).

ISTM that if we are to have a database of registrations of car number
plates to credit/debit card accounts for post payment of tolls
there should
be one national database for every toll that is collected (by a
government
agency) this way (not a separate one for Dartford and another one for
London CC etc), so it will be easy for anyone who thinks that they might
want to use a tolled road somewhere in the country to know that
they ought
to register, just in case.

That is about 20% of the population.

So the only people who it won't work for a

a) people who want to cheat the system by driving through and not paying

b) A small section of the population who really didn't get to hear
about it.

c) almost everybody.

don't be stupid.

Why stupid, most people do not use any sort of toll road on a regular
basis. And many occasional users of the Dartford Crossing are not going
home that day and any internet payment is likely to incur data roaming
charges.

Phil

If someone from north of the river is driving down to Dover to catch a
ferry for a couple of weeks holiday in France the last thing on their
mind is thinking about tolls in this country. I don't see what is
wrong with the present system. IMO it will still be a bottleneck if it
is opened up to free flow...............and what about the tankers that
are escorted through the tunnel, is that still going to happen with no
interruption of free flow

--
mick

"Phil" wrote in message
...
"tim....." writes:

"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message
...
On 06/11/2012 14:58, tim..... wrote:

Why announce (now) a load of low tech, inconvenient, methods of paying
if
you know that you are going to introduce a better one a few weeks
later?

Because many people will want the options.

I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be a manual payment option.

I'm arguing that it shouldn't be the only option for casual users who
don't see the benefit of a DART tag (or for those whose tag has run
out of credit).

ISTM that if we are to have a database of registrations of car number
plates to credit/debit card accounts for post payment of tolls
there should
be one national database for every toll that is collected (by a
government
agency) this way (not a separate one for Dartford and another one for
London CC etc), so it will be easy for anyone who thinks that they
might
want to use a tolled road somewhere in the country to know that
they ought
to register, just in case.

That is about 20% of the population.

So the only people who it won't work for a

a) people who want to cheat the system by driving through and not
paying

b) A small section of the population who really didn't get to hear
about it.

c) almost everybody.

don't be stupid.

Why stupid, most people do not use any sort of toll road on a regular
basis. And many occasional users of the Dartford Crossing are not going
home that day and any internet payment is likely to incur data roaming
charges.

But even those that don't use it know of its existence and see news items
about it

tim

In message , at 12:17:45 on Thu, 8 Nov
2012, tim..... remarked:
most people do not use any sort of toll road on a regular
basis. And many occasional users of the Dartford Crossing are not going
home that day and any internet payment is likely to incur data roaming
charges.

But even those that don't use it know of its existence and see news
items about it

I've not seen any (only the postings here). And if it was about a toll
bridge the other end of the country I'd probably have ignored/forgotten
it already.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 12:17:45 on Thu, 8 Nov
2012, tim..... remarked:
most people do not use any sort of toll road on a regular
basis. And many occasional users of the Dartford Crossing are not going
home that day and any internet payment is likely to incur data roaming
charges.

But even those that don't use it know of its existence and see news items
about it

I've not seen any (only the postings here).

the scheme hasn't started yet so there haven't been any

And if it was about a toll bridge the other end of the country I'd probably
have ignored/forgotten it already.

So as a mature adult who's lived all over the country you can't name all of
the tolled parts of trunk roads in the UK then.

I don't believe you

tim

In message , at 13:38:50 on Thu, 8 Nov
2012, tim..... remarked:

And if it was about a toll bridge the other end of the country I'd
probably have ignored/forgotten it already.

So as a mature adult who's lived all over the country you can't name
all of the tolled parts of trunk roads in the UK then.

I don't believe you

When I used the Dartford Crossing about three months ago (for the first
time in years) I had no idea if it was still tolled, and if so what the
charging arrangements were. It was cheaper than I was expecting (for a
tolled road, I'd have been just as happy if it had been free).

The M6 Toll is admittedly well known, and I have a vague recollection
that the Humber, Severn and Forth bridges are tolled (none of which I've
used in the last 20+ years). Beyond that... nothing.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:

When I used the Dartford Crossing about three months ago (for the first
time in years) I had no idea if it was still tolled, and if so what the
charging arrangements were. It was cheaper than I was expecting (for a
tolled road, I'd have been just as happy if it had been free).


It should have been free.

The concession to design, build, and finance the bridge and operate
the whole crossing including the tunnels included a toll charge to
fund the new construction. The concession was to end at a defined
point based on toll revenue paying off the debt. From that point
onwards, no toll would be charged.

The concession has now ended and the crossing has reverted to public
ownership. So it should be free, but isn't because the government has
decided to use it to raise revenue for other things. Not only did the
toll charges remain in place after handover, they were recently raised
to £2.00 per car.

On 08/11/2012 13:45, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 13:38:50 on Thu, 8 Nov
2012, tim..... remarked:

And if it was about a toll bridge the other end of the country I'd
probably have ignored/forgotten it already.

So as a mature adult who's lived all over the country you can't name
all of the tolled parts of trunk roads in the UK then.

I don't believe you

When I used the Dartford Crossing about three months ago (for the first
time in years) I had no idea if it was still tolled, and if so what the
charging arrangements were. It was cheaper than I was expecting (for a
tolled road, I'd have been just as happy if it had been free).

The M6 Toll is admittedly well known, and I have a vague recollection
that the Humber, Severn and Forth bridges are tolled (none of which I've
used in the last 20+ years). Beyond that... nothing.

tim's assertion upthread is of course quite daft.

On 08/11/2012 13:45, Roland Perry wrote:

tim..... remarked:

And if it was about a toll bridge the other end of the country I'd
probably have ignored/forgotten it already.

So as a mature adult who's lived all over the country you can't name all of
the tolled parts of trunk roads in the UK then.
I don't believe you

When I used the Dartford Crossing about three months ago (for the first time
in years) I had no idea if it was still tolled, and if so what the charging
arrangements were. It was cheaper than I was expecting (for a tolled road,
I'd have been just as happy if it had been free).

The M6 Toll is admittedly well known, and I have a vague recollection that
the Humber, Severn and Forth bridges are tolled (none of which I've used in
the last 20+ years). Beyond that... nothing.

There are also:

- the Mersey Tunnels (the newer one now apparently numbered A59),
- the Tyne Tunnel (rejoicing in the title "A19" - it used to be the A1),
- Erskine Bridge (A898),
- Tay Bridge (A92),
- Saltash Bridge (A38).

Can't remember whether the Kincardine Bridge (A871) has a toll.