wrote on 17 October 2012
23:06:39 ...
On 17/10/2012 20:30, Graham Harrison wrote:

"Roy Badami" wrote in message
...
So, I was just wondering what other cross-platform interchanges there
are on the underground.

I'm thinking of things like Victoria line and Northern line (Bank
branch) at Euston, Victoria line and Bakerloo line at Oxford Circus,
Victoria line and Northern City Line at Highbury & Islington.

I'm curious as to what others there are?

roy

Barons Court, Hammersmith, Turnham Green (at certain times) and Acton
Town Piccadilly/District
Mile End District/Central
Stratford UK Rail/Central
Finchley Rd and Wembley Park Metropolitan and Jubilee
Baker St Jubilee/Bakerloo
Edgware Rd Hammersmith and City/Circle if you're lucky



I notice that there are holding lights at only two locations, however:
westbound Mile End for both the District and Central Lines, and the
northbound Metropolitan track at Finchley Road.

Do those holding lights require the berthed train to hold until the
train on the opposite platform?

The New York City Subway has holding lights at many cross-platform
interchanges. They are three amber lights fitted on the ceiling about
halfway along the platform's length, and the train must hold with the
doors open when those lights are on. Only when the holding lights are no
longer lit can a train close up and depart.

Those holding lights are also used at terminals, I might add.

The Paris Metro has holding lights (3 white lights in a triangle) on or
near the headwall at many stations, used routinely to regulate the
service. In my experience LU have never tried to impose punctuality
controls in that way (except possibly on the ATO lines?).

What do the LU holding lights look like? Are they used often, or just
to ensure connections between the last trains of the day?
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote on 18 October 2012 00:27:46 ...
In message , Richard J.
writes
The Paris Metro has holding lights (3 white lights in a triangle) on or
near the headwall at many stations, used routinely to regulate the
service. In my experience LU have never tried to impose punctuality
controls in that way (except possibly on the ATO lines?).

Oh they do!

A red light until 30 secs before departure time seems to do the
business.

Yes, but isn't that just at termini and a few regulating points like
Hyde Park Corner? That still leaves stretches of a dozen or more
stations where no assistance is given to the drivers on accurate
timekeeping.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 16:21:18 +0100
"Richard J." wrote:
Yes, but isn't that just at termini and a few regulating points like
Hyde Park Corner? That still leaves stretches of a dozen or more
stations where no assistance is given to the drivers on accurate
timekeeping.

Whats the point of accurate timekeeping on a line with a train (in theory)
every 5 mins or less? Its not like on the main line where if a train leaves
early people might have to wait hours for the next one.

B2003

In message , at 15:39:23 on Thu, 18 Oct
2012, d remarked:

Whats the point of accurate timekeeping on a line with a train (in theory)
every 5 mins or less?

Prevents bunching. Like you see with buses: "three came along together".
--
Roland Perry

On 18/10/2012 00:27, Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
In message , Richard J.
writes
The Paris Metro has holding lights (3 white lights in a triangle) on
or near the headwall at many stations, used routinely to regulate the
service. In my experience LU have never tried to impose punctuality
controls in that way (except possibly on the ATO lines?).

Oh they do!

A red light until 30 secs before departure time seems to do the business.

Where, exactly?

On 18/10/2012 17:00, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 16:21:18 +0100, "Richard J."
wrote:

Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote on 18 October 2012 00:27:46 ...
In message , Richard J.
writes
The Paris Metro has holding lights (3 white lights in a triangle) on or
near the headwall at many stations, used routinely to regulate the
service. In my experience LU have never tried to impose punctuality
controls in that way (except possibly on the ATO lines?).

Oh they do!

A red light until 30 secs before departure time seems to do the
business.

Yes, but isn't that just at termini and a few regulating points like
Hyde Park Corner? That still leaves stretches of a dozen or more
stations where no assistance is given to the drivers on accurate
timekeeping.

Aren't those just starters, then?

On 18/10/2012 17:00, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 16:21:18 +0100, "Richard J."
wrote:

Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote on 18 October 2012 00:27:46 ...
In message , Richard J.
writes
The Paris Metro has holding lights (3 white lights in a triangle) on or
near the headwall at many stations, used routinely to regulate the
service. In my experience LU have never tried to impose punctuality
controls in that way (except possibly on the ATO lines?).

Oh they do!

A red light until 30 secs before departure time seems to do the
business.

Yes, but isn't that just at termini and a few regulating points like
Hyde Park Corner? That still leaves stretches of a dozen or more
stations where no assistance is given to the drivers on accurate
timekeeping.

Surely all of the automated lines work to a precise timetable and
timekeeping? The trains on the Vic Line have a facility to tell the
driver exactly how many seconds there are before the train will depart
and when to start the door close process. This is location and time
specific given the link to the underlying timetable and dwell time
assumptions built into it. I was told about this when I was lucky
enough to have a control room visit and cab ride on the Vic Line
before I left LU.

Yes, I also saw that on the Victoria Line when I had a cab ride.

I've also noticed on 92 stock that there is a red line on the driver's
console, which looks like it is counting down. Is that time to departure
or an indication of how far ahead the preceding train is?

I also wonder why sometimes Central Line trains do not depart when the
signal aspect is lunar white, indicating that trains on auto-pilot can
proceed, but rather wait for the full green aspect that allows all
trains to proceed.

I would expect the Jubilee Line to have something similar. As ATC /
ATO spreads to further lines then accurate timekeeping simply becomes
the norm. Whether the concept of holding lights for cross platform
interchange is programmed into the differing ATC / ATO systems I have
no idea.

BTW, where can I find information about the new signals on the Jubilee
line, as well as the accompanying sign signals?

On 18/10/2012 00:27, Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
In message , Richard J.
writes
The Paris Metro has holding lights (3 white lights in a triangle) on
or near the headwall at many stations, used routinely to regulate the
service. In my experience LU have never tried to impose punctuality
controls in that way (except possibly on the ATO lines?).

Oh they do!

A red light until 30 secs before departure time seems to do the business.


IIRC, there is a countdown clock at Paris Metro termini and a horn
sounds when it is time to depart.

A bell rings at termini on the New York City Subway.

A few more, getting more and more tenuous as we go down:

Ealing Broadway - FGW wb / central / district (sometimes)
Limehouse - c2c wb / DLR eb
Gunnesbury - district / overground
Finchley Central - mill hill east shuttle / northern nb
Aldgate - circle / met (depends)
Wimbledon - thameslink to swt, also tram to platform 9?
Grays - c2c wb to Stanford-le-Hope / terminators via Ockendon
Elmers End - tram to hayes line nb
Highbury & Islington - NLL wb / ELL from crystal palace(?)
Battersea Park - inner london loop towards VIC / other sb from VIC
Beckenham Jct, Crystal Palace, Grove Park, Watford Jct??
Euston - overground / other rail - and then most London terminals, if walking around the train counts
Wembley Central in the future?

wrote on 18 October 2012
22:07:19 ...
On 18/10/2012 00:27, Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
In message , Richard J.
writes
The Paris Metro has holding lights (3 white lights in a triangle) on
or near the headwall at many stations, used routinely to regulate the
service. In my experience LU have never tried to impose punctuality
controls in that way (except possibly on the ATO lines?).

Oh they do!

A red light until 30 secs before departure time seems to do the business.


IIRC, there is a countdown clock at Paris Metro termini and a horn
sounds when it is time to depart.

On some lines in Paris, a horn sounds in the driver's cab at every
station when it is time to depart. On some other lines, there is a
headwall digital clock that is set X minutes slow, where X is the
timetabled running time to that station from the start of the line.
Thus the correct time to depart always has the same displayed time at
each station.

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)