On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 04:15:28PM +0000, Lewis wrote:

I'm not too sure if this is the right place to post this but I was
wondering if anyone could help me. What is the maximum amount of times
you can use your oyster card in a set period of time? I have just
produce a list of things that I need to do on Monday and it will require
9 different uses of my oyster card in a two hour period. Will my oyster
card work for all thee journies? I heard that there is a cap of the
amount of journeys that can be made in a period of time

I expect that you're getting confused with the fare cap. If you use
your PAYG Oyster card enough in a day that it would have been cheaper to
get a one day travelcard*, then you will only be charged for a one day
travelcard.

* the exact amount will depend on what modes of transport you've used,
the time of day, phase of the moon, and what colour tie Boris is
wearing today

--
David Cantrell | Cake Smuggler Extraordinaire

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed
(and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an
endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary" -- H. L. Mencken

In message , at 14:34:43
on Thu, 15 Nov 2012, David Cantrell remarked:

If you use your PAYG Oyster card enough in a day that it would have
been cheaper to get a one day travelcard*, then you will only be
charged for a one day travelcard.

And the devil in the detail is "what travelcard". There was a worked
example discussed a few months ago that showed that lots of use in Z1,
plus one excursion to Z2 (or was it Z4) at the end of the day, gets
capped at the higher travelcard figure, which is noticeably more than
the Z1 travelcard plus the extra single fare.

--
Roland Perry

On 15/11/2012 15:56, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 14:34:43
on Thu, 15 Nov 2012, David Cantrell remarked:

If you use your PAYG Oyster card enough in a day that it would have
been cheaper to get a one day travelcard*, then you will only be
charged for a one day travelcard.

And the devil in the detail is "what travelcard". There was a worked
example discussed a few months ago that showed that lots of use in Z1,
plus one excursion to Z2 (or was it Z4) at the end of the day, gets
capped at the higher travelcard figure, which is noticeably more than
the Z1 travelcard plus the extra single fare.

There's no such thing as a Z1 only Travelcard (or PAYG cap) - only a
Z1&2 Travelcard / cap.

If it was an excursion to Z4, then I still can't make sense of that
whatsoever - I certainly can't make it compute as being more expensive.
If you can dig the discussion up, I'd be happy to take a look at it.

FWIW, the fare tables for Oyster PAYG and Day Travelcards can be found
here...

TfL fare tables (travel on Tube/DLR/LO):
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14416.aspx

National Rail:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14414.aspx

"Mizter T" wrote in message ...


On 15/11/2012 15:56, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 14:34:43
on Thu, 15 Nov 2012, David Cantrell remarked:

If you use your PAYG Oyster card enough in a day that it would have
been cheaper to get a one day travelcard*, then you will only be
charged for a one day travelcard.

And the devil in the detail is "what travelcard". There was a worked
example discussed a few months ago that showed that lots of use in Z1,
plus one excursion to Z2 (or was it Z4) at the end of the day, gets
capped at the higher travelcard figure, which is noticeably more than
the Z1 travelcard plus the extra single fare.

There's no such thing as a Z1 only Travelcard (or PAYG cap) - only a Z1&2
Travelcard / cap.

If it was an excursion to Z4, then I still can't make sense of that
whatsoever - I certainly can't make it compute as being more expensive. If
you can dig the discussion up, I'd be happy to take a look at it.

I think it may have been related to the peak cap. Something like one single
peak journey from Z5 to Z1, followed by a large number of journeys in Z1/2.
This would be charged at the Z1-6 peak cap (£15.80), instead of single +
Z1-2 peak cap (£4.40+£8.40).

Peter Smyth

In message , at 16:35:23 on Thu, 15 Nov
2012, Mizter T remarked:
And the devil in the detail is "what travelcard". There was a worked
example discussed a few months ago that showed that lots of use in Z1,
plus one excursion to Z2 (or was it Z4) at the end of the day, gets
capped at the higher travelcard figure, which is noticeably more than
the Z1 travelcard plus the extra single fare.

There's no such thing as a Z1 only Travelcard (or PAYG cap) - only a
Z1&2 Travelcard / cap.

If it was an excursion to Z4, then I still can't make sense of that
whatsoever - I certainly can't make it compute as being more expensive.

Z12 Travelcard £ 8.40
Z2-Z5 Single £ 2.60 (even cheaper @ £1.40 if off peak by then)
------
£11.00

Z12345 Travelcard £15.80
--
Roland Perry

In article , (Mizter T) wrote:

On 15/11/2012 15:56, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 14:34:43
on Thu, 15 Nov 2012, David Cantrell remarked:

If you use your PAYG Oyster card enough in a day that it would have
been cheaper to get a one day travelcard*, then you will only be
charged for a one day travelcard.

And the devil in the detail is "what travelcard". There was a worked
example discussed a few months ago that showed that lots of use in Z1,
plus one excursion to Z2 (or was it Z4) at the end of the day, gets
capped at the higher travelcard figure, which is noticeably more than
the Z1 travelcard plus the extra single fare.

There's no such thing as a Z1 only Travelcard (or PAYG cap) - only a
Z1&2 Travelcard / cap.

If it was an excursion to Z4, then I still can't make sense of that
whatsoever - I certainly can't make it compute as being more
expensive. If you can dig the discussion up, I'd be happy to take a
look at it.

FWIW, the fare tables for Oyster PAYG and Day Travelcards can be
found here...

TfL fare tables (travel on Tube/DLR/LO):
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14416.aspx

National Rail:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14414.aspx

Perhaps a LU + NR Zone 4 journey when the Zones 1 & 2 travel was all on the
LU fare scale.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 09:44:25PM +0000, Paul Corfield wrote:

You cannot work out how the capping process would work *unless* you
have the times, numbers. modes and zones covered of all journeys over
the day (assuming it is M-F when peak periods apply). Comparing two
fares with each other or even two tariffs won't provide the answer.

And that is the problem. Pricing should be clear. If it isn't, there
will always be the suspicion that people are being ripped off. And
pricing should be simple. If it isn't, then there are likely to be
edge-cases where people *are* ripped off.

--
David Cantrell | Nth greatest programmer in the world

One person can change the world, but most of the time they shouldn't
-- Marge Simpson

In message , at 12:23:38
on Fri, 16 Nov 2012, David Cantrell remarked:
You cannot work out how the capping process would work *unless* you
have the times, numbers. modes and zones covered of all journeys over
the day (assuming it is M-F when peak periods apply). Comparing two
fares with each other or even two tariffs won't provide the answer.

And that is the problem. Pricing should be clear. If it isn't, there
will always be the suspicion that people are being ripped off. And
pricing should be simple. If it isn't, then there are likely to be
edge-cases where people *are* ripped off.

Part of the problem is the impression which is given that the Oyster
capping system means you'll never pay more than the total of all the
individual elements bought separately as efficiently as possible.

However, that isn't the case (see the Z5 example I quoted yesterday).
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote

Part of the problem is the impression which is given that the Oyster
capping system means you'll never pay more than the total of all the
individual elements bought separately as efficiently as possible.

However, that isn't the case (see the Z5 example I quoted yesterday).


That's an assertion of what is charged, not an example. Evidence would
be a Oyster Journey history showing the amount charged and/ or repeated
refunds and/or a ruling by the ASA that the "never pay more" is
misleading advertising or a FoI disclosure agreeing that.

--
Mike D

On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 12:45:49 +0000
Paul Corfield wrote:
I think the basic message is clear - you are capped at the lowest
priced cap or at best value / lowest priced combination of peak travel
and off peak cap (for the journeys you have made).

I've seen several worked examples and it can get quite involved when
you are balancing peak jnys against off peak ones, especially with
peak / off peak different modal journeys.

Another good argument for a flat fare system.

B2003