wrote in message
...

It is OK. It is a pity we cannot have two or three fleets covering a
subset of Overground services. These trains could then carry simpler
maps covering the are served.

Are the actual sub-classes split rigidly between the bits of the network
anyway? For example are there now some dual voltage units in regular use
on
the East London?

Not at all split rigidly.

As you probably know, there was originally a discrete number of DC only
units ordered, and this fleet was sized for the original ELL, ie before the
Highbury extension. All the subsequent orders (as the extensions were
approved) were for dual voltage stock, and they can and do go anywhere on
the overall electrified network.

Hence all the dual voltage units need the full map.

Paul S

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 11:47:56 -0000

It seems very bizarre to have a short section of unelectrified line on an
otherwise electrified system especially when its the obvious place for
stock
transfer. Unless for some reason they required complete electrical
seperation
between the AC and DC sections.

According to posts elsewhere a year or two back it is a simplified system
which does achieve electrical separation, and therefore can only be used for
irregular movements, it is not designed for timetabled operation.

The normal means of transfer of stock is via a number of route options in
south London onto the WLL.

Paul

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 08:44:45 +0000, Roger
wrote:

Why? Queens Road Peckham to Clapham Junction is DC. Have they
put some AC between Surrey Quays and Queens Road Peckham?

Weren't the additional trains for the SLL service dual voltage units?
Bringing them into daily service means more dual voltage units on the
ELL service overall.

Correct. All the units ordered after the initial two subfleets were dual
voltage, whatever the reason for the numbers required. This was discussed
here firstly at the time the Highbury extension batch were ordered, and
again when TfL announced that the last batch would also be dual voltage,
IIRC this was the three additional units needed to take over the SLL.

Paul S

On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 09:17:38 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 08:44:45 +0000, Roger
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Nov 2012 17:48:37 -0600,
wrote:

In article , (Jack
Taylor) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote in message
...
Are the actual sub-classes split rigidly between the bits of the network
anyway? For example are there now some dual voltage units in regular use
on the East London?

Yes, it's happened regularly since the a.c. services commenced. Most
days there is at least one 378/2 working on the ELL.

And presumably more from 9th December?

Why? Queens Road Peckham to Clapham Junction is DC. Have they
put some AC between Surrey Quays and Queens Road Peckham?

Weren't the additional trains for the SLL service dual voltage units?
Bringing them into daily service means more dual voltage units on the
ELL service overall.

My point is that from an operational point of view dual voltage
is not required (unless they've put AC between Surrey Quays and
Queens Road Peckham). So why does Colin Rosenstiel think there
may be more dual voltage running down the ELL, unless that is
all that is available.
--
Roger

On 30 Nov, 13:43, Roger wrote:
On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 09:17:38 +0000, Paul Corfield





wrote:
On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 08:44:45 +0000, Roger
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Nov 2012 17:48:37 -0600,
wrote:

In article , (Jack
Taylor) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote in message
news:KamdnZHjcqkwVirNnZ2dnUVZ8lCdnZ2d@giganews .com...
Are the actual sub-classes split rigidly between the bits of the network
anyway? For example are there now some dual voltage units in regular use
on the East London?

Yes, it's happened regularly since the a.c. services commenced. Most
days there is at least one 378/2 working on the ELL.

And presumably more from 9th December?

Why? Queens Road Peckham to Clapham Junction is DC. Have they
put some AC between Surrey Quays and Queens Road Peckham?

Weren't the additional trains for the SLL service dual voltage units?
Bringing them into daily service means more dual voltage units on the
ELL service overall.

My point is that from an operational point of view dual voltage
is not required (unless they've put AC between Surrey Quays and
Queens Road Peckham). So why does Colin Rosenstiel think there
may be more dual voltage running down the ELL, unless that is
all that is available.

Based on this and other threads: There are insufficient DC only sets
to operate all DC only services.

"Roger" wrote in message
...

My point is that from an operational point of view dual voltage
is not required (unless they've put AC between Surrey Quays and
Queens Road Peckham). So why does Colin Rosenstiel think there
may be more dual voltage running down the ELL, unless that is
all that is available.

He isn't suggesting more 'dual voltage running', but more dual voltage
trains running in DC mode.

Paul S

On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 14:09:17 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

"Roger" wrote in message
.. .

My point is that from an operational point of view dual voltage
is not required (unless they've put AC between Surrey Quays and
Queens Road Peckham). So why does Colin Rosenstiel think there
may be more dual voltage running down the ELL, unless that is
all that is available.

He isn't suggesting more 'dual voltage running', but more dual voltage
trains running in DC mode.

Misunderstanding on my part. I didn't know that there was
insufficient DC only stock.
--
Roger

"Roger" wrote in message
...

He isn't suggesting more 'dual voltage running', but more dual voltage
trains running in DC mode.

Misunderstanding on my part. I didn't know that there was
insufficient DC only stock.

I've checked the numbers and it looks like there are 25 diagrams required
for the ELL branches from the timetable change, so on the assumption that
they'll have 2 or 3 of the 20 DC units undergoing maintenance at any one
time, (85% typical utilisation?) you'd normally expect to see 7 or 8 dual
voltage units (out of the fleet of 37) in use on the ELL on a daily basis.

Paul S

"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...

I've checked the numbers and it looks like there are 25 diagrams required
for the ELL branches from the timetable change, so on the assumption that
they'll have 2 or 3 of the 20 DC units undergoing maintenance at any one
time, (85% typical utilisation?) you'd normally expect to see 7 or 8 dual
voltage units (out of the fleet of 37) in use on the ELL on a daily basis.

PS - I see in the District Dave forum's similar discussion someone's
posted:

"The ac/dc units only need show the NLL/WLL and Watford-Euston route, unless
there is a strong likelihood of units being hijacked for the ELL/SLL".

Anyone got a login there who could put him right?

Paul S

In article
,
(77002) wrote:

On 30 Nov, 13:43, Roger wrote:
On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 09:17:38 +0000, Paul Corfield

wrote:
On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 08:44:45 +0000, Roger
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Nov 2012 17:48:37 -0600,
wrote:

In article , (Jack
Taylor) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote in message
news:KamdnZHjcqkwVirNnZ2dnUVZ8lCdnZ2d@giganews .com...
Are the actual sub-classes split rigidly between the bits of the
network anyway? For example are there now some dual voltage units
in regular use on the East London?

Yes, it's happened regularly since the a.c. services commenced.
Most days there is at least one 378/2 working on the ELL.

And presumably more from 9th December?

Why? Queens Road Peckham to Clapham Junction is DC. Have they
put some AC between Surrey Quays and Queens Road Peckham?

Weren't the additional trains for the SLL service dual voltage units?
Bringing them into daily service means more dual voltage units on the
ELL service overall.

My point is that from an operational point of view dual voltage
is not required (unless they've put AC between Surrey Quays and
Queens Road Peckham). So why does Colin Rosenstiel think there
may be more dual voltage running down the ELL, unless that is
all that is available.

Based on this and other threads: There are insufficient DC only sets
to operate all DC only services.

Precisely. The DC network is being extended without any extra DC-only units.

--
Colin Rosenstiel