On Thu, Dec 06, 2012 at 10:12:07AM +0000, d wrote:

And its really not that hard to fit trains with some brushes and de-icing
fluid to keep the 3rd rails clear

Have you done any sums to figure out how much de-icing fluid would be
needed? And have you ever tried clearing ice off your car's windows
with just a brush? No, you need rather more than just a brush.

and if it really becomes a problem I can't
see why they couldn't just cover the 3rd rails and use a US style slat contact
instead of shoes. I suspect a lot cheaper than converting to overhead.

So you want to modify all the trains, all the track, and all the
lineside equipment that the modified trains will now bash into? Yeah,
that'll be cheap.

--
David Cantrell | A machine for turning tea into grumpiness

THIS IS THE LANGUAGE POLICE
PUT DOWN YOUR THESAURUS
STEP AWAY FROM THE CLICHE

On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 12:04:52 +0000
David Cantrell wrote:
On Thu, Dec 06, 2012 at 10:12:07AM +0000, d wrote:

And its really not that hard to fit trains with some brushes and de-icing
fluid to keep the 3rd rails clear

Have you done any sums to figure out how much de-icing fluid would be
needed? And have you ever tried clearing ice off your car's windows
with just a brush? No, you need rather more than just a brush.

If I was brushing it all night it wouldn't frost up in the first place.

and if it really becomes a problem I can't
see why they couldn't just cover the 3rd rails and use a US style slat
contact
instead of shoes. I suspect a lot cheaper than converting to overhead.

So you want to modify all the trains, all the track, and all the
lineside equipment that the modified trains will now bash into? Yeah,
that'll be cheap.

Why would anything need to be modified other than the pickups? Instead of a
shoe sitting on the rail you have a slat poking out onto it. Nothing else
apart from the 3rd rail cover would be needed and until they put that on
then trains with old style shoes and trains with slats could interoperate.

ITYF it'd be a damn site cheaper then erecting catenary throughout the
southeast, adding transformers and pantographs to 3rd rail stock and binning
the ones that can't be converted. And thats before the problem of bridge
and tunnel clearances raises it ugly head.

B2003

In message , at 12:19:45 on Fri, 7 Dec
2012, d remarked:
Have you done any sums to figure out how much de-icing fluid would be
needed? And have you ever tried clearing ice off your car's windows
with just a brush? No, you need rather more than just a brush.

If I was brushing it all night it wouldn't frost up in the first place.

Of course it would. The remaining moisture in the air would frost the
window in between brush strokes (which are only any good at clearing
snow, not frost and ice). Unless you are pouring de-icer continuously,
and one of the drawbacks of de-icer is that the alcohols evaporate and
make the glass even colder than ambient.
--
Roland Perry

On 7 Dec, 13:49, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:19:45 on Fri, 7 Dec
2012, remarked:

Have you done any sums to figure out how much de-icing fluid would be
needed? *And have you ever tried clearing ice off your car's windows
with just a brush? *No, you need rather more than just a brush.

If I was brushing it all night it wouldn't frost up in the first place.

Of course it would. The remaining moisture in the air would frost the
window in between brush strokes (which are only any good at clearing
snow, not frost and ice). Unless you are pouring de-icer continuously,
and one of the drawbacks of de-icer is that the alcohols evaporate and
make the glass even colder than ambient.

IIRC, TfL's predecessors used to coat the conductor rail with some
sort of grease during the cold season. The conductor did not ice
over. Arcing was much reduced.

On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 07:29:04 -0800 (PST), 77002
wrote:

On 7 Dec, 13:49, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:19:45 on Fri, 7 Dec
2012, remarked:

Have you done any sums to figure out how much de-icing fluid would be
needed? *And have you ever tried clearing ice off your car's windows
with just a brush? *No, you need rather more than just a brush.

If I was brushing it all night it wouldn't frost up in the first place.

Of course it would. The remaining moisture in the air would frost the
window in between brush strokes (which are only any good at clearing
snow, not frost and ice). Unless you are pouring de-icer continuously,
and one of the drawbacks of de-icer is that the alcohols evaporate and
make the glass even colder than ambient.

IIRC, TfL's predecessors used to coat the conductor rail with some
sort of grease during the cold season. The conductor did not ice
over. Arcing was much reduced.

You might be confusing de-icing fluid with Sandite used on running
rails. De-icing fluid used to be similar to dilute car anti-freeze but
has been replaced by newer stuff which does not wash off as easily and
is claimed to be "greener" :-
http://www.arrowvale.co.uk/component/content/article/61