On 25 Dec, 20:31, Roland Perry wrote:
Slow news day, so another story about the KX forecourt restoration.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20771255

But they say it's 7,000 sqm, whereas my back of the envelope calculation
says it's a triangle equivalent to 100x80 (4,000 sqm) less the area of
the stairs in the bottom left down to the TfL booking hall.

So perhaps 3,500 sqm.

Did they tell the PR agency it's 100m x 70m, and forget to mention it
was triangular? Or what else could explain the huge disparity.

http://www.perry.co.uk/images/kx-square.jpg

Roland,

I do not have an answer to your question. However, this is a good
opportunity to jump in and say how well the new arrangements at Kings
Cross Network Rail station work. Passing thru the station, on the way
to Leeds, in early December, I was impressed with the improvement in
passenger flow. I ate on the upper level. When my platform was
shown, it was a quick walk over the new footbridge, and down an
escalator to reach my train. And, oh what joy to see the carbuncle in
front of the station coming down.

OTOH The new TfL arrangement is less than impressive. The route from
the Victoria line to the new ticket hall/exit is very long with no
travelators, or warning. Someone with limited mobility could easily
find himself in discomfort, or worse, difficulty.

In message
, at
08:25:34 on Wed, 26 Dec 2012, e27002
remarked:

I do not have an answer to your question. However, this is a good
opportunity to jump in and say how well the new arrangements at Kings
Cross Network Rail station work. Passing thru the station, on the way
to Leeds, in early December, I was impressed with the improvement in
passenger flow. I ate on the upper level. When my platform was
shown, it was a quick walk over the new footbridge, and down an
escalator to reach my train.

When I did that, the experience was marred by the displays at the
escalators being out of action, so a memory-test about which platform to
descend to.

And, oh what joy to see the carbuncle in front of the station coming
down.

Although some have fond memories of it (seriously).

OTOH The new TfL arrangement is less than impressive. The route from
the Victoria line to the new ticket hall/exit is very long with no
travelators, or warning. Someone with limited mobility could easily
find himself in discomfort, or worse, difficulty.

I agree, the new route especially to the Victoria Line was "advertised"
as being better than before, but is far worse than the old (although
existing if unsigned) route.

Having walked from Platform 1 to the Victoria Line (which is almost
directly below) via that enormously circuitous route, they have
definitely missed a trick in not having a short-cut from the end of
Platform 0/1/2 to the Victoria (and Picc) lines.
--
Roland Perry

On 26/12/2012 22:58, Roland Perry wrote:

Having walked from Platform 1 to the Victoria Line (which is almost
directly below) via that enormously circuitous route, they have
definitely missed a trick in not having a short-cut from the end of
Platform 0/1/2 to the Victoria (and Picc) lines.

You keep missing the point. The design of the KX-St.Pancras complex
isn't anything to do with the railway stations, it's a shopping centre
which just happens to have a few railway stations scattered about the
periphery :-). If they put in all the obvious short-cuts (I'd really
like one connecting St.Pancras low-level to the tube system without
going up two floors then all the way down again) we wouldn't have the
lure of all those retail outlets presented to us, and then we might not
spend so much on their fast food and tat.

--
Clive Page

On 27 Dec, 12:30, Clive Page wrote:
On 26/12/2012 22:58, Roland Perry wrote:

Having walked from Platform 1 to the Victoria Line (which is almost
directly below) via that enormously circuitous route, they have
definitely missed a trick in not having a short-cut from the end of
Platform 0/1/2 to the Victoria (and Picc) lines.

You keep missing the point. *The design of the KX-St.Pancras complex
isn't anything to do with the railway stations, it's a shopping centre
which just happens to have a few railway stations scattered about the
periphery :-). *If they put in all the obvious short-cuts (I'd really
like one connecting St.Pancras low-level to the tube system without
going up two floors then all the way down again) we wouldn't have the
lure of all those retail outlets presented to us, and then we might not
spend so much on their fast food and tat.

Very droll, although I concede there is a grain of truth in what you
say. The lack of a direct link from the Thameslink platforms to the
tubes, et al, is very poor.

OTOH I suspect that the long route from the Victoria and Piccadilly
lines to the northern ticket hall is a safety issue. The Euston Road
exits could easily become overwhelmed. This would be acceptable given
a travelator. As it is there are folks for whom the distance could be
very unfortunate.

Clive Page wrote:
On 26/12/2012 22:58, Roland Perry wrote:

Having walked from Platform 1 to the Victoria Line (which is almost
directly below) via that enormously circuitous route, they have
definitely missed a trick in not having a short-cut from the end of
Platform 0/1/2 to the Victoria (and Picc) lines.

You keep missing the point. The design of the KX-St.Pancras complex
isn't anything to do with the railway stations, it's a shopping centre
which just happens to have a few railway stations scattered about the
periphery :-). If they put in all the obvious short-cuts (I'd really
like one connecting St.Pancras low-level to the tube system without going
up two floors then all the way down again) we wouldn't have the lure of
all those retail outlets presented to us, and then we might not spend so
much on their fast food and tat.

But there aren't any "retail opportunities" in the underground labyrinth
connecting the tube tunnels to the barriers.

In message
, at
04:40:04 on Thu, 27 Dec 2012, 77002 remarked:
I suspect that the long route from the Victoria and Piccadilly
lines to the northern ticket hall is a safety issue.

Given that the Northern Ticket Hall is where it is, there's not really a
shorter route to the Piccadilly Line under platform 0. The Victoria Line
is beyond, and because it's re-using the foot tunnel from the old
KX-Thameslink entrance the access to the platforms is excessively to the
east. http://www.perry.co.uk/images/kx-composite.jpg

(Picture dates from about four years ago, before any of the new works
were open, but it turns out is quite close to reality).

The "missing link" is from the south of the new Thameslink platforms[1]
to the Northern Line, but the Fleet River duct is the usual excuse.

[1] not pictured, but underneath the legend on the western edge of StP.
--
Roland Perry

"77002" wrote in message
...

I suspect that the long route from the Victoria and Piccadilly
lines to the northern ticket hall is a safety issue. The Euston Road
exits could easily become overwhelmed. This would be acceptable given
a travelator. As it is there are folks for whom the distance could be
very unfortunate.

So, having spent goodness knows how many millions on the replan, it is not
"fit for purpose".

(and that's not a question).

My mother (88) would not have been able to walk the ridiculous routes as
signposted.

Fortunately, I equipped her with a copy of Roland Perry's diagram of how NOT
to have a coronary between platforms.
--
Brian
"Fight like the Devil, die like a gentleman."

On 27/12/2012 15:05, Recliner wrote:
But there aren't any "retail opportunities" in the underground labyrinth
connecting the tube tunnels to the barriers.

But there's a vast number connecting the Thameslink platforms and for
that matter the Midland Main Line platforms with the tube system,
whether you choose to go the length of the old St.Pancras station or
across in the King's Cross direction and then down.

--
Clive Page

Clive Page wrote:
On 27/12/2012 15:05, Recliner wrote:
But there aren't any "retail opportunities" in the underground labyrinth
connecting the tube tunnels to the barriers.

But there's a vast number connecting the Thameslink platforms and for
that matter the Midland Main Line platforms with the tube system, whether
you choose to go the length of the old St.Pancras station or across in
the King's Cross direction and then down.

True, but the original complaint had been about the longer routes from the
Picc and Vic platforms to the exits, and those have no shops. As for the
new TL platforms, they actually are quite a long way from the tube
platforms, shops or no shops. And 50% of the human race (ie, women) do
actually like shops and shopping...

In message , at 22:59:01 on Fri, 28
Dec 2012, Clive Page remarked:
But there aren't any "retail opportunities" in the underground labyrinth
connecting the tube tunnels to the barriers.

But there's a vast number connecting the Thameslink platforms and for
that matter the Midland Main Line platforms with the tube system,

You can miss most of them from the MML platforms if you take what's
perhaps the shortest route in any case - along the mezzanine to the
'Kissing couple' then down a fairly long staircase to the Western Ticket
Hall.

whether you choose to go the length of the old St.Pancras station or
across in the King's Cross direction and then down.

Including the Farmers Market under the St Pancras departure board which
seems to be an upmarket deli with the brand name "Farmers Market",
rather than an actual market with farmers selling things.
--
Roland Perry