TRANSPORT for London has announced that 28 train stations – including
two in the Croxley Rail Link

Is the full list available anywhere? Have googled around, but can't find
anything other than a few individual stations.

In message , at 15:40:11 on Sun, 30 Dec
2012, martin_petrov remarked:
TRANSPORT for London has announced that 28 train stations – including
two in the Croxley Rail Link

Is the full list available anywhere? Have googled around, but can't find
anything other than a few individual stations.

Isn't it marked on the map? I saw a map the other week with a
distinction between step-free from train and from platform, presumably
the latter have a step up/down from the train. In that context, is
Watford Junction step-free from the train?
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 15:40:11 on Sun, 30 Dec
2012, martin_petrov remarked:
TRANSPORT for London has announced that 28 train stations – including
two in the Croxley Rail Link

Is the full list available anywhere? Have googled around, but can't find
anything other than a few individual stations.

Isn't it marked on the map? I saw a map the other week with a distinction
between step-free from train and from platform, presumably the latter
have a step up/down from the train. In that context, is Watford Junction
step-free from the train?

It has a white background symbol, so presumably only to the platform, not
the train. Also, I assume that S Stock and 378s have different floor
heights, so even if it's step-free for one, it may not be for the other. I
wonder, how closely do the floor and platform have to match to be classed
as step-free?

In message

, at 11:03:50 on Sun, 30 Dec 2012, Recliner
remarked:
I saw a map the other week with a distinction
between step-free from train and from platform, presumably the latter
have a step up/down from the train. In that context, is Watford Junction
step-free from the train?

It has a white background symbol, so presumably only to the platform, not
the train. Also, I assume that S Stock and 378s have different floor
heights, so even if it's step-free for one, it may not be for the other. I
wonder, how closely do the floor and platform have to match to be classed
as step-free?

Within about a half an inch (or whatever that is in new money) I expect.
There are some tube station platforms (eg at Kings Cross) which have
short ramped-up regions, which I assume is to ensure that it's level.
You don't really need more than one carriage to be available, and if
there's a station with mixed stock you would just have to use the PIS to
indicate which ramped area was the one appropriate for the next train.

ps. I'm a bit disappointed that TfL (like many others) conflate
'disabled' with 'in a wheelchair'. There are many other disabilities
which can significantly affect people's ability to use public transport,
but aren't affected by step-free-ness.

I would have no issue if they went beyond their wheelchair symbol
and actually described the relevant stations as "step free", which can
of course also be of use to passengers who have chronic back pain, but
are able to walk as long as they can also drag a wheelie-bag with them
and not encounter stairs (but a one-inch step into a train would
probably be OK).
--
Roland Perry

In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:
ps. I'm a bit disappointed that TfL (like many others) conflate
'disabled' with 'in a wheelchair'.

They don't.

There are many other disabilities
which can significantly affect people's ability to use public transport,
but aren't affected by step-free-ness.

Indeed; and TfL have sensible policies for helping those with visual
imparments (VIPs!), for example.

I would have no issue if they went beyond their wheelchair symbol
and actually described the relevant stations as "step free",

That's exactly what the do. See, for example, the Step-free Tube guide
on http://www.tfl.gov.uk/gettingaround/1106.aspx which details in great
detail the steps you will encounter when using any given station.

--
Mike Bristow

In message , at 19:37:13 on Sun,
30 Dec 2012, Mike Bristow remarked:

ps. I'm a bit disappointed that TfL (like many others) conflate
'disabled' with 'in a wheelchair'.

They don't.

From your link below:

Disabled badge I need step free access...

There are many other disabilities
which can significantly affect people's ability to use public transport,
but aren't affected by step-free-ness.

Indeed; and TfL have sensible policies for helping those with visual
imparments (VIPs!), for example.

That's another small category - what about the rest?

I would have no issue if they went beyond their wheelchair symbol
and actually described the relevant stations as "step free",

That's exactly what the do. See, for example, the Step-free Tube guide
on http://www.tfl.gov.uk/gettingaround/1106.aspx which details in great
detail the steps you will encounter when using any given station.

But if that's all they mean by "disabled access", then they have
performed the conflation.
--
Roland Perry

In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 19:37:13 on Sun,
30 Dec 2012, Mike Bristow remarked:

ps. I'm a bit disappointed that TfL (like many others) conflate
'disabled' with 'in a wheelchair'.

They don't.

From your link below:

Disabled badge I need step free access...

Yes. That disabled badge is the International Symbol of Access. It is
used to indicate where access has been improved for all disability issues
(although there is more of a focus on using it where the improvment is for
mobility issues, in practice).

There are many other disabilities
which can significantly affect people's ability to use public transport,
but aren't affected by step-free-ness.

Indeed; and TfL have sensible policies for helping those with visual
imparments (VIPs!), for example.

That's another small category - what about the rest?

TfL do a lot (they could do a lot more, of course). Things like
high-contrast floring and poles where approprate; good signage;
good staff training; MIP lifts; information on their web site;
the fact that trains these days have automated audible annoucments;
the fact that trains these days have automated visual annoucments;
tactile flooring; and so on.

They are by no means perfect - Peter White and my wife travelled
between Heathrow and Stratford several times in the run up to the
paralympics to highlight access issues to TfL, of which there were
many - but I do not doubt TfLs willingness to do more than mere
lip service.

But if that's all they mean by "disabled access", then they have
performed the conflation.

It isn't. They (try and) deal with sensory and mobility imparements
through better design; intellectual and psychological issues are
delt with through training. They do a reasonable job and many
of their staff have a very good understanding of disability issues
(and TfLs failings in this regard).

Cheers,

--
Mike Bristow

On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 16:27:50 +0000, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 15:40:11 +0000 (UTC), martin_petrov
wrote:

TRANSPORT for London has announced that 28 train stations – including
two in the Croxley Rail Link

Is the full list available anywhere? Have googled around, but can't find
anything other than a few individual stations.

I have done some digging on from the recent press release and found this
document. It does list the 28 stns in the appendices.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...ble-transport-
network.pdf

Thanks! Not too many surprises, but it does list H&I getting step free as
a National Rail system by 2014, which implies they'd be putting in lifts
from the Great Northern (or however best to describe it) which seems
surprising. Obviously the high level platforms are already sorted.

In message , at 15:24:01 on Mon, 31 Dec
2012, martin_petrov remarked:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...ble-transport-
network.pdf

Thanks! Not too many surprises, but it does list H&I getting step free as
a National Rail system by 2014, which implies they'd be putting in lifts
from the Great Northern (or however best to describe it) which seems
surprising. Obviously the high level platforms are already sorted.

I'm a bit more surprised at the apparent plan to install lots of lifts
at Finsbury Park. Oh well, we'll have to see what happens.
--
Roland Perry

On Mon, 31 Dec 2012 16:04:57 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 15:24:01 on Mon, 31 Dec
2012, martin_petrov remarked:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...ble-transport-
network.pdf

Thanks! Not too many surprises, but it does list H&I getting step free
as a National Rail system by 2014, which implies they'd be putting in
lifts from the Great Northern (or however best to describe it) which
seems surprising. Obviously the high level platforms are already sorted.

I'm a bit more surprised at the apparent plan to install lots of lifts
at Finsbury Park. Oh well, we'll have to see what happens.

If ever there was a station that could do with COMPLETELY rebuilt from
scratch, it's Finsbury Park.