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On Sun, 13 Jan 2013 12:25:29 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2013 10:51:48 +0000 (UTC), d
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 21:37:26 +0000
Paul Corfield wrote:
He won't want anything better because the subtext of the article is
flat fares which Boltar has said many times should be introduced in
London. Goodness know expensive a flat fare would be and what it would
do to off peak and non Zone 1 fares which are actually pretty low.

Yes, crazy idea. I mean it would never work for anything.

I didn't say it would not work. I queried what the fare level would
be. The follow on from that is what then happens to travel demand and
travel patterns. It would probably be popular in outer areas for
travel to the centre but not for local trips (through zones 2-9) which
are relatively cheap on PAYG, especially off peak. It would most
likely lead to an increase in Z1 and Z12 / Z123 fares. Now you either
then get loads of complaints about further inflated fares or a mass
diversion from tubes to buses which is not terribly efficient given
the tube is the better "mass transport" mode in the centre / inner
areas.

The other unknown is what would happen to TfL's revenue under such a
scheme. The TOCs almost certainly would refuse to join in such a
scheme and would object to a policy which could lead to them losing
revenue even if the policy only applied to tube fares. That's just the
nature of things under a franchising system where they take the
revenue risk.

Oh , wait....

Someone remind me about the fare system on london buses again...

The flat fare on buses is only there to make sure Oyster validation on
entry works. You could have a graduated system but it would either
mean people telling the driver where they were travelling to on entry
so the right fare is deducted or else have validation on exit which is
potentially fraught with problems in London. These options would
affect the economics of the bus services as dwell times would probably
increase meaning longer journeys and more buses to provide a given
frequency level.

Exit validation does apply in Singapore but societal norms are a bit
different there. I have used the system quite a lot and not had a
problem but the rules on the system clearly show problems can and do
arise and passengers have to jump through hoops to rectify overcharges
or non charges / equipment failures etc.

I think that if a practical way of getting back to graduated bus fares
existed then TfL would want to adopt it to increase revenue / reduce
subsidy.

Also, because London buses are slow (lots of stops, as well as bad
traffic), most people don't travel very far on a bus compared to even
a slow, stopping Tube train. So not many people would stay on the bus
long enough to get into a higher fare (eg, multi-zone) band.
Furthermore, a single Tube fare might include two or three separate
rides, with no surcharge; taking two or three buses on one journey
doubles or trebles the price (unless you hit a daily cap).

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