Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:28:24 on
Mon, 5 Aug 2013, Recliner remarked:
I'm astonished by the assertion that this project is "supporting" the
equivalent of 13,800 full time jobs. Can that be correct?

I've not seen the maths, but I wonder how many of those jobs are in
the UK?

Crossrail say they have 7,000 jobs "working directly on Crossrail at over
40 construction sites"

Most of the rest are in the supply chain (in which I include the
"dragging away the spoil" chain).

For example, the expensive TBMs are all German

I'm not sure those would be counted in the 13,800 jobs, because their
construction finished ages ago.

There are probably more man-hours involved in the UK keeping them
maintained, than there were in Germany building them.

Not all of the TBMs are yet in use, so the were definitely German jobs
involved in their construction in 2012.

In message

, at 07:02:29 on Mon, 5 Aug 2013, Recliner
remarked:
There are probably more man-hours involved in the UK keeping them
maintained, than there were in Germany building them.

Not all of the TBMs are yet in use, so the were definitely German jobs
involved in their construction in 2012.

Do we know how many?

And why are German jobs even an issue, it's UK-based jobs that the claim
was about.

--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at 07:02:29 on Mon, 5 Aug 2013, Recliner remarked:
There are probably more man-hours involved in the UK keeping them
maintained, than there were in Germany building them.

Not all of the TBMs are yet in use, so the were definitely German jobs
involved in their construction in 2012.

Do we know how many?

And why are German jobs even an issue, it's UK-based jobs that the claim was about.

Did it actually mention UK jobs, or just jobs in the supply chain?

In message

, at 08:29:54 on Mon, 5 Aug 2013, Recliner
remarked:
There are probably more man-hours involved in the UK keeping them
maintained, than there were in Germany building them.

Not all of the TBMs are yet in use, so the were definitely German jobs
involved in their construction in 2012.

Do we know how many?

And why are German jobs even an issue, it's UK-based jobs that the claim was about.

Did it actually mention UK jobs, or just jobs in the supply chain?

To be pedantic, it didn't mention how long the jobs lasted either. So do
they count, as part of the 18k, the person whose full time job it was
for a week to do some work on their website?

To make any sense it must mean 18k extra jobs every day of the year, and
the TBM manufacturing jobs are well out of the pipeline now. Perhaps we
should be more concerned about the Mercedes buses taking the navvies to
work every day?
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at 08:29:54 on Mon, 5 Aug 2013, Recliner remarked:
There are probably more man-hours involved in the UK keeping them
maintained, than there were in Germany building them.

Not all of the TBMs are yet in use, so the were definitely German jobs
involved in their construction in 2012.

Do we know how many?

And why are German jobs even an issue, it's UK-based jobs that the claim was about.

Did it actually mention UK jobs, or just jobs in the supply chain?

To be pedantic, it didn't mention how long the jobs lasted either. So do
they count, as part of the 18k, the person whose full time job it was for
a week to do some work on their website?

To make any sense it must mean 18k extra jobs every day of the year, and
the TBM manufacturing jobs are well out of the pipeline now. Perhaps we
should be more concerned about the Mercedes buses taking the navvies to work every day?

The actual words we
"Europe's largest current construction project is now halfway through,
having absorbed over 25 million working hours and produced around eight
miles of tunnels. Last year and this year the project supported the
equivalent of 13,800 full-time jobs throughout the supply chain."

So the number of jobs appears to be 13,800 FTEs, across Europe. And yes,
that probably includes web site developers and maybe bus builders, too.

In message

, at 09:13:17 on Mon, 5 Aug 2013, Recliner
remarked:
The actual words we
"Europe's largest current construction project is now halfway through,
having absorbed over 25 million working hours and produced around eight
miles of tunnels. Last year and this year the project supported the
equivalent of 13,800 full-time jobs throughout the supply chain."

How many years is that 25 million over? Taking one rule of thumb that
once you've extracted vacations, sick leave, training etc you have 1000
hours per employee at the coal face, that sounds like 25,000 year-jobs.

So the number of jobs appears to be 13,800 FTEs, across Europe. And yes,
that probably includes web site developers and maybe bus builders, too.

We need an economist to explain how far this can be drilled down. Are we
really intending to include the builders who constructed the McDonalds
where the bus driver who ferries the navvies to the site has his
breakfast?
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 15:23:42 on
Mon, 5 Aug 2013, Paul Corfield remarked:
Perhaps we should be more concerned about the Mercedes buses taking
the navvies to work every day?

You're probably being facetious

Attempting to make everyone think about how far things drill down.

but I'm not aware of any special bus routes for Crossrail construction
workers

But if 2% of buses are filled by Crossrail construction workers, can we
add 2% of the bus drivers' time into the 13k FTE?

and Mercedes buses are now pretty rare in London - only 5 TfL routes
use them.

Where were the remaining ones made? (I have no idea, apart from a
lingering impression that's it's unlikely to be Leyland, Lancs).
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 18:39:17 on
Mon, 5 Aug 2013, Paul Corfield remarked:
Doing your usual "there is no definition of this variable so let's ask
10,000 questions about what it might mean" more like. I don't see the
point to be honest.

They've quoted a pretty precise figure, so some management accountant
has produced the numbers to a methodology. It'd be interesting to know a
bit about that, rater than simply taking the figure as read (or as some
appear to be, mocking it as read).

but I'm not aware of any special bus routes for Crossrail construction
workers

But if 2% of buses are filled by Crossrail construction workers, can we
add 2% of the bus drivers' time into the 13k FTE?

Buses that run on normal routes that Crossrail workers might use to
get to work are not part of the supply chain for Crossrail. I am not
aware of any bus service that has been enhanced for Crossrail purposes
- in fact it is probably the opposite given service reductions in and
around Oxford St where there are several CR building sites.

It's be a strange calculation if it only took into account supply chains
exclusive to the project. Or supply chains for tangible goods rather
than also services.

Even so this is not a supply chain issue.

Do you know that the methodology excludes this particular input, or are
you speculating? I thought the "number of jobs created by the Olympic
build" included those jobs required to support the workers the other 16
hours a day.

and Mercedes buses are now pretty rare in London - only 5 TfL routes
use them.

Where were the remaining ones made? (I have no idea, apart from a
lingering impression that's it's unlikely to be Leyland, Lancs).

I believe Citaros are made in Germany. The rest of London's fleet is
largely UK built but some chassis come from Poland. Some engines and
components are also of non UK origin.

Thanks.

--
Roland Perry