Roland Perry wrote:

But the passengers we are talking about aren't being carried only to
Watford (if it were inside the zones) but from BZ8 to whatever the next
Virgin-serviced station is, or beyond.

To be more specific than what I said, a Freedom Pass is only valid where
that TOC operates trains that call at two stations in the zone *and you are
allowed to use them to travel between those two stations*, therefore they
receive funding. As WFJ is pick up only northbound/set down southbound,
this is not the case, so not valid.

This always used to be the case for Boundary Zone tickets as well, probably
still is, because otherwise they have not received any money from the
Travelcard. Outboundary Travelcards are different because where such a TOC
can be used this is accounted in.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply.

Matthew Dickinson wrote:

Travelcards on Oyster are valid on Virgin (and in theory on Scotrail, but
I don't think it saves anything) if combined with a paper ticket from the
boundary zone of the Travelcard.

Is that true? If so the rules have changed, they didn't used to be per my
other post.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply.

Thanks much for that.

We can now cite 19c to those awaiting reminders…
And of course the diehard jobsworths.

Ken

On 2013-08-27 16:14:45 +0000, Barry Salter said:

On 21/08/2013 21:15, Peter Smyth wrote:

By a strict reading of the rules, the conductor was correct, a ticket
from Surbiton is only valid on trains that stop at Surbiton, while a
ticket from Boundary Zone 6 woule be valid on any train.

A Freedom Pass (and 60+ Oyster) is treated as a Season Ticket (albeit a
time-restricted one) for the purposes of Condition 19(c) of the
National Conditions of Carriage, thus the train does not need to stop
at the relevant station as long as you're travelling on a participating
TOC (i.e. all of them except East Coast, EMT, Grand Central, Heathrow
Express, Hull Trains and Virgin).

A briefing to this effect went out some time ago, but it appears that
some staff are in need of a reminder...

In message

..net, at 22:57:11 on Wed, 28 Aug 2013, Neil Williams
remarked:
Travelcards on Oyster are valid on Virgin (and in theory on Scotrail, but
I don't think it saves anything) if combined with a paper ticket from the
boundary zone of the Travelcard.

Is that true? If so the rules have changed, they didn't used to be per my
other post.

What I find so disappointing is that the 'rule' (whatever it is) is so
hard to find. I've given up after several minutes of Googling.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 09:32:21 on
Thu, 29 Aug 2013, Paul Corfield remarked:
We can now cite 19c to those awaiting reminders…
And of course the diehard jobsworths.

Here's a link to the Conditions of Carriage

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static...tent/NRCOC.pdf

for your delectation or printing off ;-)

Is there also a list of what tickets qualify as "passes issued on behalf
of a PTE or local authority" and "leisure travel pass".

For example, in what sense is a Freedom Pass not "issued by a LA
belonging to Boris" [or is it simply an exception to the rule]?

And is TfL a PTE.

Are "Rover" and "Britrail" the same set as "leisure travel passes", or
are there other additions/subtractions by way of exceptions?
--
Roland Perry

In message , at
09:16:39 on Wed, 28 Aug 2013, Matthew Dickinson
remarked:
Travelcards on Oyster are valid on Virgin (and in theory on Scotrail,
but I don't think it saves anything) if combined with a paper ticket
from the boundary zone of the Travelcard.

Would it be correct to say that:

the Oyster Travelcard validity you mention is because the minimum
available is a "7 day season ticket"?

a Paper one-day Travelcard is not a season, but a ODTC plus a BZ ticket
*is* allowable because it's actually transformed into a 'new ticket'
viz: the return half of an outboundary Travelcard.

there's some dispute as to whether Virgin accept Oyster-based products
*at all*. [What official document confirms or denies this?]
--
Roland Perry

On Thursday, 29 August 2013 09:43:09 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:32:21 on

Thu, 29 Aug 2013, Paul Corfield remarked:

We can now cite 19c to those awaiting reminders…

And of course the diehard jobsworths.



Here's a link to the Conditions of Carriage



http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static...tent/NRCOC.pdf



for your delectation or printing off ;-)



Is there also a list of what tickets qualify as "passes issued on behalf

of a PTE or local authority" and "leisure travel pass".



For example, in what sense is a Freedom Pass not "issued by a LA

belonging to Boris" [or is it simply an exception to the rule]?



And is TfL a PTE.


TfL is not a PTE.




Are "Rover" and "Britrail" the same set as "leisure travel passes", or

are there other additions/subtractions by way of exceptions?



From the CoC "leisure travel pass...includes rover tickets, travel passes, flexipass tickets and Britrail passes"

Roland Perry

On Thursday, 29 August 2013 09:51:05 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at

09:16:39 on Wed, 28 Aug 2013, Matthew Dickinson

remarked:

Travelcards on Oyster are valid on Virgin (and in theory on Scotrail,

but I don't think it saves anything) if combined with a paper ticket

from the boundary zone of the Travelcard.



Would it be correct to say that:



the Oyster Travelcard validity you mention is because the minimum

available is a "7 day season ticket"?



a Paper one-day Travelcard is not a season, but a ODTC plus a BZ ticket

*is* allowable because it's actually transformed into a 'new ticket'

viz: the return half of an outboundary Travelcard.



there's some dispute as to whether Virgin accept Oyster-based products

*at all*. [What official document confirms or denies this?]

--

Roland Perry

Virgin have to treat Oyster cards (and ITSO cards) the same as paper tickets under section 9 of the CoC.

"Any reference in these conditions to the term "ticket" includes an Electronic Ticket unless specifically stated otherwise.



An Electronic Ticket may be stored on a:
(i)Smartcard (including an Oyster or ITSO card);
(ii)payment card or identity card;
(iii)mobile telephone;
(iv)personal organiser;
(v)other mobile electronic device; "


An interesting webpage on this subject is at:

http://virgintrains.org.uk/

(Not the official Virgin Trains website)

In message , at
03:09:18 on Thu, 29 Aug 2013, Matthew Dickinson
remarked:
Travelcards on Oyster are valid on Virgin (and in theory on Scotrail,

but I don't think it saves anything) if combined with a paper ticket

from the boundary zone of the Travelcard.



Would it be correct to say that:



the Oyster Travelcard validity you mention is because the minimum

available is a "7 day season ticket"?



a Paper one-day Travelcard is not a season, but a ODTC plus a BZ ticket

*is* allowable because it's actually transformed into a 'new ticket'

viz: the return half of an outboundary Travelcard.



there's some dispute as to whether Virgin accept Oyster-based products

*at all*. [What official document confirms or denies this?]


Virgin have to treat Oyster cards (and ITSO cards) the same as paper tickets under section 9 of the CoC.

What's your authority for that? I'm fairly sure XC doesn't have to
accept EMT's ITSO tickets between Nottingham and Derby, for example.

ps Any comment on my other questions.

pps I wish you'd sort out your quoting (which I have not fixed, above,
because doing so gets tiresome).
--
Roland Perry

In message , at
03:00:31 on Thu, 29 Aug 2013, Matthew Dickinson
remarked:
And is TfL a PTE.

TfL is not a PTE.

Where's a list of organisations which are?

Are "Rover" and "Britrail" the same set as "leisure travel passes", or
are there other additions/subtractions by way of exceptions?

From the CoC "leisure travel pass...includes rover tickets, travel passes,

What's the definition (or a list of) the somewhat generic expression
"travel pass".

flexipass tickets and Britrail passes"

"Flexipass" seems to be carnet-style travel pass.
--
Roland Perry