Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:23:35 on
Sat, 16 Nov 2013, Recliner remarked:

HEx is only intended as a replacement for taxis (ie for people who had
it not existed would have taken a taxi), it's not in competition with
any other rail-based modes.

The official Heathrow touts work very hard to push people towards HEx,
so Heathrow Airport Ltd certainly seems to feel that it's in
competition with Heathrow Connect and the Tube.

A small amount of mission creep perhaps, but the people taking up that
offer are probably unaware of the existence of either HC or the tube.

Exactly, they're exploiting that ignorance. It would be much better to have
a single ticket office selling tickets for the Tube, HEx, HC and airport
buses, helping people buy the right one, depending on where they're going
(and budget).

In message , at
14:36:40 on Sat, 16 Nov 2013, Neil Williams
remarked:
But not likely to be used enough to be a worry. A ticket check on
leaving Heathrow would catch a lot of the offenders.

True. But then no need for any barriers.

Barriers are good because a full ticket check isn't comprehensive, it's
there to deter people.

And of course the MAD scenario is only people *arriving* at the airport.
--
Roland Perry

In message

, at 08:38:16 on Sat, 16 Nov 2013, Recliner
remarked:
The official Heathrow touts work very hard to push people towards HEx,
so Heathrow Airport Ltd certainly seems to feel that it's in
competition with Heathrow Connect and the Tube.

A small amount of mission creep perhaps, but the people taking up that
offer are probably unaware of the existence of either HC or the tube.

Exactly, they're exploiting that ignorance.

To some extent, but these are very different markets. HEx for the people
who would have got a taxi, HC for airport workers and people living in
West London, and the tube for Londoners who want cheap and slow.
--
Roland Perry

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 09:03:25 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
23:48:22 on Fri, 15 Nov 2013, Neil Williams
remarked:
Only if Crossrail goes non-stop to Heathrow from Paddington, and
accepts Travelcards/Oyster.

Paddington is in the middle of nowhere in London terms, hence why the
Picc Line is often still a viable choice. Crossrail will serve more
useful places more quickly.

But Heathrow Express will still be attractive to visitors for all the
reasons I've mentioned earlier in the thread.

I don't see why it would be. Someone arrives in London, sees a train going
to central london or another going to paddington (where?). The choice is
pretty simple it would seem to me. As someone else said , the piccadilly line
carries far more people than Hex , now double or triple the speed and you
have crossrail.

Even if BAA still gets sacks of gold from track access charges - and personally
I think the track should be compulsoraily purchased and handed over to NR -
the HeX service is on borrowed time. Crossrail will almost certainly kill it
stone dead.

--
Spud

In message , at 15:25:11 on Sat, 16 Nov
2013, d remarked:

Heathrow Express will still be attractive to visitors for all the

reasons I've mentioned earlier in the thread.



I don't see why it would be. Someone arrives in London, sees a train going

to central london or another going to paddington (where?). The choice is

pretty simple it would seem to me.

Because it's a brand name, and if you are a stranger in the city then
there's an assumption that the airport express is the train you want.

There's also the aspect (which I agree is almost a market failure) that
you don't get to see which trains are leaving until you get to the
platform, which is after buying a ticket. The tube platform is somewhere
else entirely.

As someone else said , the piccadilly line
carries far more people than
Hex , now double or triple the speed and
you have crossrail.

And accept Travelcards of course. Which this discussion is predicated on
NOT happening.

Even if BAA still gets sacks of gold from track access charges - and personally

I think the track should be compulsoraily purchased and handed over to NR -

the HeX service is on borrowed time.

Government wouldn't build it, so why would they buy it now?

Yes, to some extent the HEx fare is a tourist "tax" (although I believe
the fares are only at a level that the line breaks even), but let's not
forget it's a tiny fraction of the APD full-in-your-face tourist tax
that we seem quite happy to relieve all flyers of.

Crossrail will almost certainly kill it
stone dead.

We'll see.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at 08:38:16 on Sat, 16 Nov 2013, Recliner remarked:
The official Heathrow touts work very hard to push people towards HEx,
so Heathrow Airport Ltd certainly seems to feel that it's in
competition with Heathrow Connect and the Tube.

A small amount of mission creep perhaps, but the people taking up that
offer are probably unaware of the existence of either HC or the tube.

Exactly, they're exploiting that ignorance.

To some extent, but these are very different markets. HEx for the people
who would have got a taxi, HC for airport workers and people living in
West London, and the tube for Londoners who want cheap and slow.

Yes, but the HEx touts are also pushing it at people who aren't really in
the target market, and for whom the Tube would be better (both because it's
cheaper and also because it's more likely to take them where they need to
go). For many of those people, the Tube would actually be faster, too.

In message

, at 09:56:01 on Sat, 16 Nov 2013, Recliner
remarked:
To some extent, but these are very different markets. HEx for the people
who would have got a taxi, HC for airport workers and people living in
West London, and the tube for Londoners who want cheap and slow.

Yes, but the HEx touts are also pushing it at people who aren't really in
the target market, and for whom the Tube would be better (both because it's
cheaper and also because it's more likely to take them where they need to
go). For many of those people, the Tube would actually be faster, too.

Why doesn't TfL send out "tube touts", or make more of an effort to
publicise its service?

I don't want to see people paying more than they need to, but the tube
can be very confusing for the first time visitor and at least HEx is
simple.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at 09:56:01 on Sat, 16 Nov 2013, Recliner remarked:
To some extent, but these are very different markets. HEx for the people
who would have got a taxi, HC for airport workers and people living in
West London, and the tube for Londoners who want cheap and slow.

Yes, but the HEx touts are also pushing it at people who aren't really in
the target market, and for whom the Tube would be better (both because it's
cheaper and also because it's more likely to take them where they need to
go). For many of those people, the Tube would actually be faster, too.

Why doesn't TfL send out "tube touts", or make more of an effort to publicise its service?

I don't want to see people paying more than they need to, but the tube
can be very confusing for the first time visitor and at least HEx is simple.

I'm not sure Tube touts would be welcomed in Heathrow... But, yes, the
Tube is a lot more confusing than HEx. Also, the Tube trains from LHR are
pretty full anyway, so TfL probably wouldn't want to tout for even more
business.

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 16:12:36 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
I don't want to see people paying more than they need to, but the tube
can be very confusing for the first time visitor and at least HEx is
simple.

Until they get to paddington. I suspect a large number of first time visitors
will use HeX once and then never again especially when they go on the tube and
see the piccadilly going to heathrow on the map.

--
Spud

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 15:51:07 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
I think the track should be compulsoraily purchased and handed over to NR -

the HeX service is on borrowed time.

Government wouldn't build it, so why would they buy it now?

I don't blame them for not building it - its a line without a purpose other
than for travel to obscure parts of west london but mainly for BAA to fleece
tourists. But now it does exist it could be properly integrated into the
transport network.

--
Spud