Graeme Wall wrote:
On 07/12/2013 15:09, Recliner wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 12:20:30 +0000, Graeme Wall
wrote:

On 07/12/2013 11:26, d wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 10:59:09 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 07/12/2013 10:46, d wrote:
so why do they need a timetable? Even on more complicated
lines you could have some sort of train recognition system whereby the driver
types in his route at the start of his trip and the signalling sets the
route according to the trains id when it gets to certain junctions. No need
for a timetable.


Reinventing the wheel. I suggest you read up on TfL's regulatory system.

AFAIK its done by a timetable system - not by simply picking up a train id
at the trackside and setting the route accordingly.



Back in the 1960s the Northern Line was using automatic route setting
equipment. Used a giant pianola type roll with punched holes.

The first LU Programme Machines went into service in 1955

cough 1958 at Kennington, though it wasn't patented till 1960.

I was going by this official timeline:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...-transport.pdf
"1955 First system of programme machine signalling introduced at Camden
Town"

On 07/12/2013 15:35, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 07/12/2013 15:09, Recliner wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 12:20:30 +0000, Graeme Wall
wrote:

On 07/12/2013 11:26, d wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 10:59:09 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 07/12/2013 10:46, d wrote:
so why do they need a timetable? Even on more complicated
lines you could have some sort of train recognition system whereby the driver
types in his route at the start of his trip and the signalling sets the
route according to the trains id when it gets to certain junctions. No need
for a timetable.


Reinventing the wheel. I suggest you read up on TfL's regulatory system.

AFAIK its done by a timetable system - not by simply picking up a train id
at the trackside and setting the route accordingly.



Back in the 1960s the Northern Line was using automatic route setting
equipment. Used a giant pianola type roll with punched holes.

The first LU Programme Machines went into service in 1955

cough 1958 at Kennington, though it wasn't patented till 1960.

I was going by this official timeline:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...-transport.pdf
"1955 First system of programme machine signalling introduced at Camden
Town"


Well TfL ought to know :-) I think that only worked at Camden Town
According to "How the Underground Works" full programme machine
operating on the Northern Line was introduced progressively from 1958
till about 1968. District line installation commenced in 1960.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

Graeme Wall wrote:
On 07/12/2013 15:35, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 07/12/2013 15:09, Recliner wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 12:20:30 +0000, Graeme Wall
wrote:

On 07/12/2013 11:26, d wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 10:59:09 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 07/12/2013 10:46, d wrote:
so why do they need a timetable? Even on more complicated
lines you could have some sort of train recognition system whereby the driver
types in his route at the start of his trip and the signalling sets the
route according to the trains id when it gets to certain junctions. No need
for a timetable.


Reinventing the wheel. I suggest you read up on TfL's regulatory system.

AFAIK its done by a timetable system - not by simply picking up a train id
at the trackside and setting the route accordingly.



Back in the 1960s the Northern Line was using automatic route setting
equipment. Used a giant pianola type roll with punched holes.

The first LU Programme Machines went into service in 1955

cough 1958 at Kennington, though it wasn't patented till 1960.

I was going by this official timeline:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...-transport.pdf
"1955 First system of programme machine signalling introduced at Camden
Town"


Well TfL ought to know :-) I think that only worked at Camden Town
According to "How the Underground Works" full programme machine operating
on the Northern Line was introduced progressively from 1958 till about
1968. District line installation commenced in 1960.

What I found harder to ascertain is how many of the original mechanical
programme machines are still in use (and for how much longer)?

On 07/12/2013 16:11, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 07/12/2013 15:35, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 07/12/2013 15:09, Recliner wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 12:20:30 +0000, Graeme Wall
wrote:

On 07/12/2013 11:26, d wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 10:59:09 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 07/12/2013 10:46, d wrote:
so why do they need a timetable? Even on more complicated
lines you could have some sort of train recognition system whereby the driver
types in his route at the start of his trip and the signalling sets the
route according to the trains id when it gets to certain junctions. No need
for a timetable.


Reinventing the wheel. I suggest you read up on TfL's regulatory system.

AFAIK its done by a timetable system - not by simply picking up a train id
at the trackside and setting the route accordingly.



Back in the 1960s the Northern Line was using automatic route setting
equipment. Used a giant pianola type roll with punched holes.

The first LU Programme Machines went into service in 1955

cough 1958 at Kennington, though it wasn't patented till 1960.

I was going by this official timeline:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...-transport.pdf
"1955 First system of programme machine signalling introduced at Camden
Town"


Well TfL ought to know :-) I think that only worked at Camden Town
According to "How the Underground Works" full programme machine operating
on the Northern Line was introduced progressively from 1958 till about
1968. District line installation commenced in 1960.

What I found harder to ascertain is how many of the original mechanical
programme machines are still in use (and for how much longer)?


Just says "some" are still in use!

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 12:20:30 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 07/12/2013 11:26, d wrote:
AFAIK its done by a timetable system - not by simply picking up a train id
at the trackside and setting the route accordingly.



Back in the 1960s the Northern Line was using automatic route setting
equipment. Used a giant pianola type roll with punched holes.

Thats nice. And that is the same as picking up the id from a train on the
track, how exactly?

The way I see it if the giant piano wants to send train A to Barnet and train
B to edgware but the trains arrive in the order B - A , then its screwed.

--
Spud

On 07/12/2013 17:07, d wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 12:20:30 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 07/12/2013 11:26, d wrote:
AFAIK its done by a timetable system - not by simply picking up a train id
at the trackside and setting the route accordingly.



Back in the 1960s the Northern Line was using automatic route setting
equipment. Used a giant pianola type roll with punched holes.

Thats nice. And that is the same as picking up the id from a train on the
track, how exactly?

The way I see it if the giant piano wants to send train A to Barnet and train
B to edgware but the trains arrive in the order B - A , then its screwed.


That's why you work to a timetable.


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

In article , (Graeme
Wall) wrote:

On 07/12/2013 11:31, Someone Somewhere wrote:
On 07/12/2013 10:59, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 07/12/2013 10:46, d wrote:

Well there is that. But the jubilee, bakerloo, victoria & W&C are just
there and back lines

They aren't completely. Not all trains go all the way every trip and
the H&C has to dovetail into the Met, District and Circle lines.

Last time I checked the W&C and the H&C were different beasties.

So they are but then pausing at intermediate stops doesn't happen on
the W&C.

A pity really. It could do with a station at Blackfriars.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 18:57:47 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 07/12/2013 17:07, d wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 12:20:30 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 07/12/2013 11:26, d wrote:
AFAIK its done by a timetable system - not by simply picking up a train id
at the trackside and setting the route accordingly.



Back in the 1960s the Northern Line was using automatic route setting
equipment. Used a giant pianola type roll with punched holes.

Thats nice. And that is the same as picking up the id from a train on the
track, how exactly?

The way I see it if the giant piano wants to send train A to Barnet and train
B to edgware but the trains arrive in the order B - A , then its screwed.


That's why you work to a timetable.

Face - palm.

We're going in circles here. Never mind.

--
Spud

On 07/12/2013 19:25, d wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 18:57:47 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 07/12/2013 17:07, d wrote:
On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 12:20:30 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 07/12/2013 11:26, d wrote:
AFAIK its done by a timetable system - not by simply picking up a train id
at the trackside and setting the route accordingly.



Back in the 1960s the Northern Line was using automatic route setting
equipment. Used a giant pianola type roll with punched holes.

Thats nice. And that is the same as picking up the id from a train on the
track, how exactly?

The way I see it if the giant piano wants to send train A to Barnet and train
B to edgware but the trains arrive in the order B - A , then its screwed.


That's why you work to a timetable.

Face - palm.

We're going in circles here. Never mind.


You wanted to know why they worked to a timetable.


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 12:18:52 +0000, Graeme Wall
wrote:
Not sure how that would help

By being able to print at the same time as the tickets.

Switzerland/France/Japan/Germany/Middlesbrough.

SBB's machines are *very* slow. They seem to use multiple paper rolls
and one printer, switching the rolls mechanically from tickets to
receipts, taking several seconds.

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.