On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 12:11:38 +0000, Mizter T
wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-25025888

---quote---
Every ticket office on the Tube is to shut by 2015 under plans that will
see 750 jobs cut.

Transport for London (TfL) said staff will be moved from behind ticket
office windows to be in the station itself to help passengers.

The Tube will also run 24 hours a day on Fridays and Saturdays on some
lines.
[...]
TfL says six major central London stations will have special customer
points to help tourists and that every station will be staffed while the
tube is running.
---/quote---



Blimey - I knew fewer ticket offices is the general direction of things,
but wasn't expecting quite such a radical proposal. The pill is of
course sweetened by the plan for 24hr running on some Tube lines, which
in its own right is most welcome.

It's been rumoured for a while, and is I suppose the inevitable
consequence of the move to largely smartcard and machine-bought
tickets. But the weekend running is more unexpected. And, as the
article also mentions, that means some stations will need to be manned
24 hours a day over the weekend. Will the unions tolerate
single-manned stations at 3am in south or east London?

On 21/11/2013 12:22, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 12:11:38 +0000, Mizter T
wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-25025888

---quote---
Every ticket office on the Tube is to shut by 2015 under plans that will
see 750 jobs cut.

Transport for London (TfL) said staff will be moved from behind ticket
office windows to be in the station itself to help passengers.

The Tube will also run 24 hours a day on Fridays and Saturdays on some
lines.
[...]
TfL says six major central London stations will have special customer
points to help tourists and that every station will be staffed while the
tube is running.
---/quote---



Blimey - I knew fewer ticket offices is the general direction of things,
but wasn't expecting quite such a radical proposal. The pill is of
course sweetened by the plan for 24hr running on some Tube lines, which
in its own right is most welcome.

It's been rumoured for a while, and is I suppose the inevitable
consequence of the move to largely smartcard and machine-bought
tickets. But the weekend running is more unexpected. And, as the
article also mentions, that means some stations will need to be manned
24 hours a day over the weekend. Will the unions tolerate
single-manned stations at 3am in south or east London?


Or indeed west or north London.

Anyhow, your prejudices aside, AFAICS the proposals don't explicitly
talk about single staffing of stations - of course the unions will say
the threat is implicit.

Re the ticketing - the crucial change will be the acceptance of
Contactless Payment Cards (CPCs - e.g. Visa payWave) on the Tube. This
will I think lead to a fairly revolutionary change (with the significant
caveat that many passengers won't have access to a CPC), but it'll only
really make sense if NR in London also accepts CPCs in the same manner.

Re the 24hr running - I could perhaps see a case for the Bank branch of
the Northern line to run as well, given how popular Shoreditch/ Hoxton
(served by Old Street) and Islington (served by Angel) are as
nightspots. That said, parts of the London Overground network - the East
London Line and at least some of the North London Line - would attract a
significant nocturnal patronage if they were open for business too.

"Night Tube" map:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...ight-map-2.jpg

In message , at 12:40:32 on Thu, 21 Nov
2013, Mizter T remarked:
Re the ticketing - the crucial change will be the acceptance of
Contactless Payment Cards (CPCs - e.g. Visa payWave) on the Tube. This
will I think lead to a fairly revolutionary change (with the
significant caveat that many passengers won't have access to a CPC),
but it'll only really make sense if NR in London also accepts CPCs in
the same manner.

Do you happen to know if they've started accepting foreign issued and
prepaid CPCs yet? This is of course of some importance to tourists,
especially since the move towards prepaid card for the issuing of
foreign exchange.
--
Roland Perry

On 21/11/2013 12:55, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 12:40:32 on Thu, 21 Nov
2013, Mizter T remarked:
Re the ticketing - the crucial change will be the acceptance of
Contactless Payment Cards (CPCs - e.g. Visa payWave) on the Tube. This
will I think lead to a fairly revolutionary change (with the
significant caveat that many passengers won't have access to a CPC),
but it'll only really make sense if NR in London also accepts CPCs in
the same manner.

Do you happen to know if they've started accepting foreign issued and
prepaid CPCs yet? This is of course of some importance to tourists,
especially since the move towards prepaid card for the issuing of
foreign exchange.

TfL hasn't actually got a policy of not accepting foreign issued CPCs on
buses, rather they just promote the scheme as accepting UK-issued
contactless credit/debit/charge cards because they can't guarantee
foreign issued ones will work.

See this PDF from TfL - "Using contactless payment cards
on buses":
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/tickets/Using_contactless_payment_cards_on_buses.pdf

---quote---
Most contactless payment cards (CPCs) issued by UK banks and payment
card companies will be accepted on buses but some cards issued outside
the UK will not.
---/quote---


FWIW, I've read reports elsewhere that foreign issued CPCs have worked
just fine on buses.

I can't offer any insight into when TfL will be able to offer an
assurance that foreign issued CPCs will work, ditto for (UK or foreign
issued) prepaid cards, for I don't know any more than that.

As I said earlier, I think CPCs will likely change the ticketing picture
significantly, but they're certainly not some magic solve-all solution.
I wonder if the Tube sans ticket offices proposal is perhaps a bit
before its time - that said, others have suggested that public transport
ticketing might be the real driver that leads to widespread adoption and
usage of contactless cards.

In message , at 15:18:33 on Thu, 21 Nov
2013, Mizter T remarked:
TfL hasn't actually got a policy of not accepting foreign issued CPCs
on buses, rather they just promote the scheme as accepting UK-issued
contactless credit/debit/charge cards because they can't guarantee
foreign issued ones will work.

See this PDF from TfL - "Using contactless payment cards
on buses":
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/tickets/Using_contactless_payment_cards_on_buses.pdf

---quote---
Most contactless payment cards (CPCs) issued by UK banks and payment
card companies will be accepted on buses but some cards issued outside
the UK will not.
---/quote---

But my understanding is that they are refusing some foreign/prepay cards
because of problems in the back-office processing, rather than because
there's a technical issue with the cards themselves.
--
Roland Perry

On 21/11/2013 16:30, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 15:18:33 on Thu, 21 Nov
2013, Mizter T remarked:
TfL hasn't actually got a policy of not accepting foreign issued CPCs
on buses, rather they just promote the scheme as accepting UK-issued
contactless credit/debit/charge cards because they can't guarantee
foreign issued ones will work.

See this PDF from TfL - "Using contactless payment cards
on buses":
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/tickets/Using_contactless_payment_cards_on_buses.pdf


---quote---
Most contactless payment cards (CPCs) issued by UK banks and payment
card companies will be accepted on buses but some cards issued outside
the UK will not.
---/quote---

But my understanding is that they are refusing some foreign/prepay cards
because of problems in the back-office processing, rather than because
there's a technical issue with the cards themselves.

Fair point. I don't know what it is that's deficient when it comes to
some foreign issued contactless cards.

In message , at 19:21:18 on Thu, 21 Nov
2013, Mizter T remarked:
But my understanding is that they are refusing some foreign/prepay cards
because of problems in the back-office processing, rather than because
there's a technical issue with the cards themselves.

Fair point. I don't know what it is that's deficient when it comes to
some foreign issued contactless cards.

The problem is probably setting up a relationship with the foreign
banks, dealing with things like over-limit credit cards and exhausted
pre-pay cards. We know buses aren't online. It's a bit like the old
"Electron/Solo" restriction.
--
Roland Perry

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 15:18:33 +0000, Mizter T
wrote:

As I said earlier, I think CPCs will likely change the ticketing
picture
significantly, but they're certainly not some magic solve-all
solution.
I wonder if the Tube sans ticket offices proposal is perhaps a bit
before its time

I think it's about 15 years after its time. City transport networks
need simple, automated ticketing. Ticket offices are for the mainline
- and TBH I see a reduced need for them there as well - better to
have them out showing how to use the machine next time.

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.

On 21/11/2013 20:59, Neil Williams wrote:

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 15:18:33 +0000, Mizter T wrote:

As I said earlier, I think CPCs will likely change the ticketing
picture significantly, but they're certainly not some magic solve-all
solve-all I wonder if the Tube sans ticket offices proposal is perhaps
a bit before its time

I think it's about 15 years after its time. City transport networks
need simple, automated ticketing. Ticket offices are for the mainline -
and TBH I see a reduced need for them there as well - better to have
them out showing how to use the machine next time.

The reason why I said that is because contactless cards are still
somewhat new on the scene, and there are still many with a (standard) UK
bank account who don't have them yet. If the 'close the Tube ticket
offices' plan is predicated on widespread CPC usage, then holding a CPC
also needs to be widespread. That said, the picture will inevitably
change over the next year and a half.

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 21:51:38 +0000, Mizter T
wrote:
The reason why I said that is because contactless cards are still
somewhat new on the scene, and there are still many with a
(standard) UK
bank account who don't have them yet. If the 'close the Tube ticket
offices' plan is predicated on widespread CPC usage, then holding a
CPC
also needs to be widespread. That said, the picture will inevitably
change over the next year and a half.

Cards typically have a 3 year expiry, so I would expect after 3 years
near enough all cards to be so equipped.

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.