On 03/01/2014 12:21, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:37:31 on Fri, 3 Jan 2014,
Mizter T remarked:
However, they have either withdrawn the restriction on using foreign or
prepay cards (and many tourists will have foreign prepay cards) or
they've just stopped mentioning it.

How many (if any) prepaid cards have contactless enabled? I suspect
they won't have it, as contactless transactions are all about being
super-quick, 'touch and go', without time for online authorisation.
Enabling contactless would be a risk for the issuer - existing prepaid
cards have a zero floor limit (i.e. automatic online authorisation),
for example.

Yes, I know what the problem for the merchants is (very similar to the
old Electron/Solo issue), but a prepaid card is the sort of thing that
minors, tourists[1] and the uncreditworthy [all three of whom buy tube
tickets] are very likely to have.

Now maybe but the use of such cards will grow over time.

Have they met the deadline set when first introduced [Dec 2012]:

"From the end of 2013, contactless payment cards will be accepted on the
Tube, Docklands Light Railway, London Overground and trams."

I'm not looking forward to that because it would seem it obsoletes my
"Onepulse Barclay/Oyster" - the system charges neither rather than one
or both, apparently. Will they be sending me an automatic refund for the
stored amount?

"the system charges neither rather than one or both, apparently" -
really? I'd expect it to continue acting as an Oyster card when
presented to an Oyster validator

The December 2012 press release says:

"If an Oyster card and a contactless bankcard are presented to a reader
on a bus together (for instance, in a wallet), the readers will normally
reject them both, as it can't be sure which card was intended to be used."

That doesn't happen everywhere. I have a contactless card for transport
from another city, which I keep with my Oyster. Some readers on the tube
and bus accept the Oyster with no problem/question, while others will
indicate that there are two cards.

I wonder if TfL would eventually do away with and accept either thumb
prints or have ceiling mounted readers that can read your face or
irises. Fares would be directly deducted from people's accounts.

The latter would eliminate the need for gates and their moving parts.

On 04/01/2014 13:46, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 13:38:52 on Sat, 4 Jan 2014,
" remarked:

I thought that they were doing a pilot scheme first, before it came
into service on other forms of transport, besides the bus.

Indeed, and when the bus-only pilot was announced in Dec 2012 (as quoted
from above) the wider roll-out was said to be 'from the end of 2013'.

It's got delayed. Better that than rolling it out broken.


Will they allow capping now?

I presume so, but if anyone has any more recent announcements than Dec
2012 to base that upon, I'd be happy to see them.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/19976.aspx

"early 2014"

In message , at 14:02:16 on Sat, 4 Jan 2014,
Mizter T remarked:
I thought that they were doing a pilot scheme first, before it came
into service on other forms of transport, besides the bus.

Indeed, and when the bus-only pilot was announced in Dec 2012 (as quoted
from above) the wider roll-out was said to be 'from the end of 2013'.

It's got delayed. Better that than rolling it out broken.


Will they allow capping now?

I presume so, but if anyone has any more recent announcements than Dec
2012 to base that upon, I'd be happy to see them.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/19976.aspx

"early 2014"

Thanks for the link. So it's slipped from "everyone late 2013" to "a
small pilot early 2014". Just checking!
--
Roland Perry

On 04/01/2014 14:17, Roland Perry wrote:

I presume so, but if anyone has any more recent announcements than Dec
2012 to base that upon, I'd be happy to see them.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/19976.aspx

"early 2014"

Thanks for the link. So it's slipped from "everyone late 2013" to "a
small pilot early 2014". Just checking!

No. "Early 2014" is the full rollout.

The pilot started in December, and it doesn't seem like a "small pilot"
to me:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/28751.aspx

Feel free to misrepresent things though.

In message , at 14:39:40 on Sat, 4 Jan 2014,
Mizter T remarked:
The pilot started in December, and it doesn't seem like a "small pilot"
to me:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/28751.aspx

Unhelpfully, there's no date on that announcement (and yes, it does seem
to be a small pilot as someone is hand-checking whether the applicants
use their Oyster enough already).

But if we can *all* use contactless from "early 2014", then I look
forward to an announcement (undated or otherwise) letting us know from
when!

At least it's "early 2014", rather than "early Spring" which is
undoubtedly later.
--
Roland Perry

On 04/01/2014 14:48, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 14:39:40 on Sat, 4 Jan 2014,
Mizter T remarked:
The pilot started in December, and it doesn't seem like a "small
pilot" to me:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/28751.aspx

Unhelpfully, there's no date on that announcement (and yes, it does seem
to be a small pilot as someone is hand-checking whether the applicants
use their Oyster enough already).

Paul C posted about it here on utl on 22 November - thread subject is
"Take part in TfL's trial of contactless bank cards on rail modes":

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/uk.transport.london/TPI6o0Pq2sY/OBztk4vCg5kJ

The pilot is being prominently promoted on the front page of TfL's website:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/

But I'll take your word on it that it's a small pilot.


But if we can *all* use contactless from "early 2014", then I look
forward to an announcement (undated or otherwise) letting us know from
when!

At least it's "early 2014", rather than "early Spring" which is
undoubtedly later.

Well, if one splits a year up into three equal chunks of early, middle
and late, then I guess it could be any time in the first four months.

In message , at 15:16:46 on Sat, 4 Jan 2014,
Mizter T remarked:
The pilot is being prominently promoted on the front page of TfL's website:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/

But I'll take your word on it that it's a small pilot.

"Apply now to participate in our contactless payment pilot - the number
of places available is limited."

And as they only want people who travel frequently, but use PAYG, and no
Travelcards or discounts available, that's already whittled it down
quite a bit.

But if we can *all* use contactless from "early 2014", then I look
forward to an announcement (undated or otherwise) letting us know from
when!

At least it's "early 2014", rather than "early Spring" which is
undoubtedly later.

Well, if one splits a year up into three equal chunks of early, middle
and late, then I guess it could be any time in the first four months.

One things certain, however you split it up they missed "late 2013".

And if it's as neatly divided as you say, I'm sure you can recall many
instances of when (eg) "Late 2013" meant September.
--
Roland Perry

On 02/01/2014 21:11, Mizter T wrote:

On 02/01/2014 20:46, Clive Page wrote:

On 02/01/2014 16:24, tim...... wrote:

If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying for
tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are tilting at
windmills

I walk from St.Pancras to King's Cross tube station quite frequently and
continue to be surprised at the number of arrivals from Eurostar who
head straight to the enormously long queue for the ticket office, when
there are plenty of ticket machines with no queue or only a small one.

It could be that some of them are conditioned by the near impossibility
of using ticket machines at stations in France (and for that matter in
the Netherlands) if you are a non-native.

I find that surprising as I would assume that TVMs in both countries
would be multi-lingual.

Indeed, I always prefer using TVMs, as compared to standing in queue --
it's quicker, you don't have to deal with surly staff and you don't have
to put up with the next person in front of you in queue with a large or
confusing transaction or some other issue.

Annoying that (all?) the RER and Metro ticket machines don't take notes,
but they should accept UK cards these days (there used to be problems
when the French had their own chip-and-PIN system, before the adoption
of the EMV standard.)

Problem with using a UK debit card abroad is that the bank takes a
percentage on each transaction. At least that is the way it is with my
bank.

In message , at 18:15:52 on Sat, 4 Jan 2014,
" remarked:
It could be that some of them are conditioned by the near impossibility
of using ticket machines at stations in France (and for that matter in
the Netherlands) if you are a non-native.

I find that surprising as I would assume that TVMs in both countries
would be multi-lingual.

It's not so much a language problem as needing local coinage or a local
cash-card (and I don't mean a local VISA/Barclaycard). Eventually things
tend to get better (but sometimes revert like accepting notes and then
stopping it again) although local equivalents of Oyster will often have
a steep learning curve.
--
Roland Perry

wrote in message
...
In article ,
(tim......) wrote:

wrote in message
...
In article ,

(tim......) wrote:

wrote in message
...
In article ,
(tim......) wrote:

If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying
for tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are
tilting at windmills

You only have to look at the number of suitably "qualified"
individuals who don't go through the self service passport check
(at
no risk and sometimes considerable time cost) to see how
"frightened" the average person is of such technology

Now maybe but the use of such cards will grow over time.

but not withing the timetable that Boris wants to close the ticket
offices IMHO

It's still some time till his 2015 deadline in terms of electronic
payment development timescales.

but nowhere near enought time for everybody to get used to using them

especially foreigners

I wouldn't be so sure.

Well I'll ask a bunch of then when I go back to the office tomorrow :-)

I can't be sure that it isn't my lack of observation, but I haven't seen any
opportunities to pay with a contactless card here, so I'm not expecting a
large positive response

And it isn't just foreigners. Not all UK banks have started issuing the
cards. Mine isn't and even if they start next week the one in my wallet
doesn't expire until 07/15! (Not a problem for me as I have an "occasional
use" Oyster)

tim