On 02/01/2014 16:24, tim...... wrote:
[snip]
If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying for
tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are tilting at
windmills

You only have to look at the number of suitably "qualified" individuals
who don't go through the self service passport check (at no risk and
sometimes considerable time cost) to see how "frightened" the average
person is of such technology

They might not have a chipped passport yet. (Or have no passport - the
gates don't work with Euro national identity cards.)

Mizter T writes:

On 02/01/2014 16:24, tim...... wrote:
[snip]
If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying for
tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are tilting at
windmills

You only have to look at the number of suitably "qualified" individuals
who don't go through the self service passport check (at no risk and
sometimes considerable time cost) to see how "frightened" the average
person is of such technology

They might not have a chipped passport yet. (Or have no passport - the
gates don't work with Euro national identity cards.)

Can't be many non-chip UK passports left now.

But you see the same everywhere, how few use pay-at-pump, although
self-service checkouts do seem to have gained acceptance.

Have yet to see anyone else use a pay wave card in my local co-op
though.

Phil

On 02/01/2014 19:02, Phil wrote:

Mizter T writes:

On 02/01/2014 16:24, tim...... wrote:
[snip]
If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying for
tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are tilting at
windmills

You only have to look at the number of suitably "qualified" individuals
who don't go through the self service passport check (at no risk and
sometimes considerable time cost) to see how "frightened" the average
person is of such technology

They might not have a chipped passport yet. (Or have no passport - the
gates don't work with Euro national identity cards.)

Can't be many non-chip UK passports left now.

British passports with chips were introduced in March 2006, according to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport#Countries_using_biometric_passp orts

So another two years and two months before the last non-chipped British
passports expire (and that's excluding all the inevitable exceptions -
I've a feeling that Brit passports issued by embassies overseas weren't
issued with chips until a later date).


But you see the same everywhere, how few use pay-at-pump, although
self-service checkouts do seem to have gained acceptance.

Have yet to see anyone else use a pay wave card in my local co-op
though.

Possible that availability of contactless card payment on public
transport might drive awareness and usage elsewhere (I've certainly read
the industry hopes as much).

On 02/01/2014 20:05, Mizter T wrote:

They might not have a chipped passport yet. (Or have no passport - the
gates don't work with Euro national identity cards.)

Can't be many non-chip UK passports left now.

British passports with chips were introduced in March 2006, according to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport#Countries_using_biometric_passp orts


So another two years and two months before the last non-chipped British
passports expire (and that's excluding all the inevitable exceptions -
I've a feeling that Brit passports issued by embassies overseas weren't
issued with chips until a later date).


From a better source - the then IPS (now HM Passport Office):
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/118598/biometric-passports-readers.pdf

---quote---
The first e-passport was issued by our central production facility on
the 6th March 2006. These e-passports introduced a new design with
additional security features, including a chip with the holder’s facial
biometric. The passport showed the personal details at the back page
with the chip and antenna visible on observation page. They were
introduced gradually throughout 2006. This mirrored the introduction of
e-passports in over 40 other countries and ensured the UK remained
within the US visa waiver scheme.
---/quote---

So another three years till non-chipped British passports expire. (One
of them being mine!)

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...

On 02/01/2014 19:02, Phil wrote:

Mizter T writes:

On 02/01/2014 16:24, tim...... wrote:
[snip]
If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying for
tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are tilting at
windmills

You only have to look at the number of suitably "qualified" individuals
who don't go through the self service passport check (at no risk and
sometimes considerable time cost) to see how "frightened" the average
person is of such technology

They might not have a chipped passport yet. (Or have no passport - the
gates don't work with Euro national identity cards.)

Can't be many non-chip UK passports left now.

British passports with chips were introduced in March 2006, according to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport#Countries_using_biometric_passp orts

So another two years and two months before the last non-chipped British
passports expire

actually it would be 2 years and 11 months if you renewed a pp with 9 months
still to go in March 2006

But it's even worse that that because whilst they started to introduce then
in March they didn't issue 100% as chipped for sever months

Mine issued in May 2006 (expires in Nov) doesn't have a chip

tim

In message , at 20:05:59 on Thu, 2 Jan 2014,
Mizter T remarked:
Can't be many non-chip UK passports left now.

British passports with chips were introduced in March 2006, according to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport#Countries_using_biometric_passp orts

So another two years and two months before the last non-chipped British
passports expire (and that's excluding all the inevitable exceptions -
I've a feeling that Brit passports issued by embassies overseas weren't
issued with chips until a later date).

So less than a quarter of the old one left.
--
Roland Perry

On 03/01/2014 10:27, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 20:05:59 on Thu, 2 Jan 2014,
Mizter T remarked:
Can't be many non-chip UK passports left now.

British passports with chips were introduced in March 2006, according to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport#Countries_using_biometric_passp orts


So another two years and two months before the last non-chipped
British passports expire (and that's excluding all the inevitable
exceptions - I've a feeling that Brit passports issued by embassies
overseas weren't issued with chips until a later date).

So less than a quarter of the old one left.

See my follow-up post - non-chipped continued to be issued until end of
2006 - but my point was in response to "Can't be many non-chip UK
passports left now" - I'd say there'd be quite a few.

In article , (Phil) wrote:

Mizter T writes:

On 02/01/2014 16:24, tim...... wrote:
[snip]
If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying for
tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are tilting at
windmills

You only have to look at the number of suitably "qualified" individuals
who don't go through the self service passport check (at no risk and
sometimes considerable time cost) to see how "frightened" the average
person is of such technology

They might not have a chipped passport yet. (Or have no passport - the
gates don't work with Euro national identity cards.)

Can't be many non-chip UK passports left now.

But you see the same everywhere, how few use pay-at-pump, although
self-service checkouts do seem to have gained acceptance.

Forced in by supermarkets maybe. I refuse to use them. "Unexpected item in
bagging area" is hassle I don't need.

Have yet to see anyone else use a pay wave card in my local co-op
though.

Nor me in local Sainsbury and ASDA.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"Phil" wrote

But you see the same everywhere, how few use pay-at-pump, although
self-service checkouts do seem to have gained acceptance.

Today's news gave a new reason for this

http://www.theguardian.com/business/...-petrol-glitch

NatWest and Royal Bank of Scotland customers have become the victims of
another technical glitch that has resulted in many being unable to pay for
fuel at Tesco's petrol stations. Reports of the problems spread on social
media after customers' credit cards were declined when they tried to pay for
fuel.

The problem appeared to be limited to Tesco's pay-at-pump transactions,
which allow customers to pay for petrol without having to go into the shop.
Users inputting the correct pin three times found the payment denied and
their cards locked. The terminals require users to put their cards into the
machine before they fill up their vehicle.

An RBS spokesman blamed Tesco for yesterday's problems, and confirmed that
all the bank's systems were operating normally.

Tesco said: "We are investigating reports of problems affecting some of our
pay-at-pump services. We apologise to our customers for any inconvenience
caused."

--
Mike D

On 04/01/2014 01:01, Michael R N Dolbear wrote:
"Phil" wrote

But you see the same everywhere, how few use pay-at-pump, although
self-service checkouts do seem to have gained acceptance.

Today's news gave a new reason for this

http://www.theguardian.com/business/...-petrol-glitch

But that's probably not the only reason. I like to get a paper record
for every credit card transaction, so I can check my bill every month.
I used to use the "pay at pump" machines routinely but stopped after
twice finding at the end that the machine could not produce a receipt.
If the machine had been programmed properly to tell me this at the
outset that it was out of paper I could have avoided the pump payment
option. It often doesn't take much longer to pay at the kiosk, and for
me it's worth the extra few seconds to be sure that I get a paper record
of every transaction.

I don't understand how companies can introduce new technology with so
little appreciation of the need for a resilient user-interface and
proper fall-back systems. At one petrol station in France the machine
told me at the end that it had run out of paper, but that I could insert
my card into any other free machine on the forecourt to get my receipt.
I did that, and it worked fine. I've never seen that at the
pay-at-pump machines in the UK.

A year or so back my nearest petrol station introduced fancy new
pay-at-pump machines which hardly anybody used, as far as I could see,
and now I see that they have all been taken away. It's easy to see why.


--
Clive Page