On 02/01/2014 16:24, tim...... wrote:

If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying for
tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are tilting at
windmills

I walk from St.Pancras to King's Cross tube station quite frequently and
continue to be surprised at the number of arrivals from Eurostar who
head straight to the enormously long queue for the ticket office, when
there are plenty of ticket machines with no queue or only a small one.

It could be that some of them are conditioned by the near impossibility
of using ticket machines at stations in France (and for that matter in
the Netherlands) if you are a non-native. I recall arriving at the RER
station in Charles de Gaulle a few years ago and finding that the ticket
machines accepted neither UK credit cards nor Euro notes. I was able to
avoid the extremely long queue only by being able to feed in at least
two dozen small coins (which fortunately I had left over from a previous
trip).

You only have to look at the number of suitably "qualified" individuals
who don't go through the self service passport check (at no risk and
sometimes considerable time cost) to see how "frightened" the average
person is of such technology

Well my experience of these things at airports is that they only
recognise my face or iris about one time out of three, and that if it
fails I have to queue up for the manned barrier anyway after a few
minutes, so that on average there is little or no time saving. It's
nothing to do with "fright": if the technology gets better maybe more of
us will use them. I'm told that the new-fangled facial recognition
systems are slightly better than the old iris scanners, but my
experience has not provided me with much evidence of that so far.

--
Clive Page

On 02/01/2014 20:46, Clive Page wrote:

On 02/01/2014 16:24, tim...... wrote:

If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying for
tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are tilting at
windmills

I walk from St.Pancras to King's Cross tube station quite frequently and
continue to be surprised at the number of arrivals from Eurostar who
head straight to the enormously long queue for the ticket office, when
there are plenty of ticket machines with no queue or only a small one.

It could be that some of them are conditioned by the near impossibility
of using ticket machines at stations in France (and for that matter in
the Netherlands) if you are a non-native. I recall arriving at the RER
station in Charles de Gaulle a few years ago and finding that the ticket
machines accepted neither UK credit cards nor Euro notes. I was able to
avoid the extremely long queue only by being able to feed in at least
two dozen small coins (which fortunately I had left over from a previous
trip).

Annoying that (all?) the RER and Metro ticket machines don't take notes,
but they should accept UK cards these days (there used to be problems
when the French had their own chip-and-PIN system, before the adoption
of the EMV standard.)

On 02/01/2014 21:11, Mizter T wrote:

On 02/01/2014 20:46, Clive Page wrote:

On 02/01/2014 16:24, tim...... wrote:

If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying for
tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are tilting at
windmills

I walk from St.Pancras to King's Cross tube station quite frequently and
continue to be surprised at the number of arrivals from Eurostar who
head straight to the enormously long queue for the ticket office, when
there are plenty of ticket machines with no queue or only a small one.

It could be that some of them are conditioned by the near impossibility
of using ticket machines at stations in France (and for that matter in
the Netherlands) if you are a non-native.

I find that surprising as I would assume that TVMs in both countries
would be multi-lingual.

Indeed, I always prefer using TVMs, as compared to standing in queue --
it's quicker, you don't have to deal with surly staff and you don't have
to put up with the next person in front of you in queue with a large or
confusing transaction or some other issue.

Annoying that (all?) the RER and Metro ticket machines don't take notes,
but they should accept UK cards these days (there used to be problems
when the French had their own chip-and-PIN system, before the adoption
of the EMV standard.)

Problem with using a UK debit card abroad is that the bank takes a
percentage on each transaction. At least that is the way it is with my
bank.

In message , at 18:15:52 on Sat, 4 Jan 2014,
" remarked:
It could be that some of them are conditioned by the near impossibility
of using ticket machines at stations in France (and for that matter in
the Netherlands) if you are a non-native.

I find that surprising as I would assume that TVMs in both countries
would be multi-lingual.

It's not so much a language problem as needing local coinage or a local
cash-card (and I don't mean a local VISA/Barclaycard). Eventually things
tend to get better (but sometimes revert like accepting notes and then
stopping it again) although local equivalents of Oyster will often have
a steep learning curve.
--
Roland Perry

wrote in message ...
On 02/01/2014 21:11, Mizter T wrote:

On 02/01/2014 20:46, Clive Page wrote:

On 02/01/2014 16:24, tim...... wrote:

If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying for
tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are tilting at
windmills

I walk from St.Pancras to King's Cross tube station quite frequently and
continue to be surprised at the number of arrivals from Eurostar who
head straight to the enormously long queue for the ticket office, when
there are plenty of ticket machines with no queue or only a small one.

It could be that some of them are conditioned by the near impossibility
of using ticket machines at stations in France (and for that matter in
the Netherlands) if you are a non-native.

I find that surprising as I would assume that TVMs in both countries would
be multi-lingual.

Indeed, I always prefer using TVMs, as compared to standing in queue --
it's quicker, you don't have to deal with surly staff and you don't have
to put up with the next person in front of you in queue with a large or
confusing transaction or some other issue.

Annoying that (all?) the RER and Metro ticket machines don't take notes,
but they should accept UK cards these days (there used to be problems
when the French had their own chip-and-PIN system, before the adoption
of the EMV standard.)

Problem with using a UK debit card abroad is that the bank takes a
percentage on each transaction. At least that is the way it is with my
bank.

yes mine's started doing that 2.75% added on the top of a less than stellar
exchange rate

(Apparently) some are even worse, applying a 1 (or even 2) pound per
transaction minimum to this charge. That can make a 60 bus fare flipping
expensive!

tim

" writes:

On 02/01/2014 21:11, Mizter T wrote:

On 02/01/2014 20:46, Clive Page wrote:

On 02/01/2014 16:24, tim...... wrote:

If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying for
tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are tilting at
windmills

I walk from St.Pancras to King's Cross tube station quite frequently and
continue to be surprised at the number of arrivals from Eurostar who
head straight to the enormously long queue for the ticket office, when
there are plenty of ticket machines with no queue or only a small one.

It could be that some of them are conditioned by the near impossibility
of using ticket machines at stations in France (and for that matter in
the Netherlands) if you are a non-native.

I find that surprising as I would assume that TVMs in both countries
would be multi-lingual.

Indeed, I always prefer using TVMs, as compared to standing in queue --
it's quicker, you don't have to deal with surly staff and you don't
have to put up with the next person in front of you in queue with a
large or confusing transaction or some other issue.

Annoying that (all?) the RER and Metro ticket machines don't take notes,
but they should accept UK cards these days (there used to be problems
when the French had their own chip-and-PIN system, before the adoption
of the EMV standard.)

Problem with using a UK debit card abroad is that the bank takes a
percentage on each transaction. At least that is the way it is with my
bank.

It depends on your account, more than the bank.

My HSBC Advance account gives me free foreign currency transactions. Admittedly
there is a fee, but as it gives me worldwide travel insurance and UK
breakdown cover I consider it value for money.

Phil

"Clive Page" wrote in message
...
On 02/01/2014 16:24, tim...... wrote:

If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying for
tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are tilting at
windmills

I walk from St.Pancras to King's Cross tube station quite frequently and
continue to be surprised at the number of arrivals from Eurostar who head
straight to the enormously long queue for the ticket office, when there
are plenty of ticket machines with no queue or only a small one.

It could be that some of them are conditioned by the near impossibility of
using ticket machines at stations in France (and for that matter in the
Netherlands) if you are a non-native. I recall arriving at the RER
station in Charles de Gaulle a few years ago and finding that the ticket
machines accepted neither UK credit cards nor Euro notes. I was able to
avoid the extremely long queue only by being able to feed in at least two
dozen small coins (which fortunately I had left over from a previous
trip).

You only have to look at the number of suitably "qualified" individuals
who don't go through the self service passport check (at no risk and
sometimes considerable time cost) to see how "frightened" the average
person is of such technology

Well my experience of these things at airports is that they only recognise
my face or iris about one time out of three, and that if it fails I have
to queue up for the manned barrier anyway after a few minutes, so that on
average there is little or no time saving.

Really?

Whenever I watch the "helpers" on the self service q they seem to go out of
their way not to reject people (with a valid chip pp) back into the "normal
q,

It's nothing to do with "fright": if the technology gets better maybe more
of us will use them. I'm told that the new-fangled facial recognition
systems are slightly better than the old iris scanners, but my experience
has not provided me with much evidence of that so far.

--
Clive Page

On Thu, Jan 02, 2014 at 08:46:47PM +0000, Clive Page wrote:

It could be that some of them are conditioned by the near impossibility
of using ticket machines at stations in France (and for that matter in
the Netherlands) if you are a non-native.

The only problem I've had with ticket machines in Paris is that they use
funny foreign coins that I don't recognise very quickly, which makes it
hard to figure out what to put in. If only Europe would adopt a single
currency, such as the pound.

--
David Cantrell | Godless Liberal Elitist

"David Cantrell" wrote in message
...
On Thu, Jan 02, 2014 at 08:46:47PM +0000, Clive Page wrote:

It could be that some of them are conditioned by the near impossibility
of using ticket machines at stations in France (and for that matter in
the Netherlands) if you are a non-native.

The only problem I've had with ticket machines in Paris is that they use
funny foreign coins that I don't recognise very quickly, which makes it
hard to figure out what to put in. If only Europe would adopt a single
currency, such as the pound.

I've been using the Euro, day in day out, for 50% of the time since the day
they were minted, and I still can't tell what value a random small coin is,
without reading the value on it.

And for those that don't know, they have different patterns on the edge so
that you can tell then apart but I'm ******* if I can remember which value
has which edging.

(and before anyone mentions it, yes I can tell the copper from the bronze,
it differentiating within those sets that I can't do)

tim


--
David Cantrell | Godless Liberal Elitist

In message , at 18:40:11 on Mon, 6 Jan
2014, tim...... remarked:
I've been using the Euro, day in day out, for 50% of the time since the
day they were minted, and I still can't tell what value a random small
coin is, without reading the value on it.

Perhaps you aren't suited to be being an international traveller then.
I've never had such a problem with numerous trips using USA and Swiss
currency, in addition to UK/Euro. Or even Dubai, India, Lithuania and
Australia on my trips there.

I wonder if there's a recognised expression for it (a bit like dyslexia
for words).
--
Roland Perry