In message , at 12:13:42
on Thu, 2 Jan 2014, remarked:
If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying for
tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are tilting
at windmills

You only have to look at the number of suitably "qualified"
individuals who don't go through the self service passport check (at
no risk and sometimes considerable time cost) to see how "frightened"
the average person is of such technology

Also built-in problems for families travelling:

"Like Oyster, you can only pay for one person per journey with a
contactless payment card; if you are travelling in a group, each
person will have to use a separate contactless payment card or
other method of payment."

However, they have either withdrawn the restriction on using foreign or
prepay cards (and many tourists will have foreign prepay cards) or
they've just stopped mentioning it.

Now maybe but the use of such cards will grow over time.

Have they met the deadline set when first introduced [Dec 2012]:

"From the end of 2013, contactless payment cards will be accepted on the
Tube, Docklands Light Railway, London Overground and trams."

I'm not looking forward to that because it would seem it obsoletes my
"Onepulse Barclay/Oyster" - the system charges neither rather than one
or both, apparently. Will they be sending me an automatic refund for the
stored amount?
--
Roland Perry

On 03/01/2014 10:25, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 12:13:42
on Thu, 2 Jan 2014, remarked:
If TfL are expecting your average foreign tourist to start paying for
tickets using "pay wave" credit cards I think that they are tilting
at windmills

You only have to look at the number of suitably "qualified"
individuals who don't go through the self service passport check (at
no risk and sometimes considerable time cost) to see how "frightened"
the average person is of such technology

Also built-in problems for families travelling:

"Like Oyster, you can only pay for one person per journey with a
contactless payment card; if you are travelling in a group, each
person will have to use a separate contactless payment card or
other method of payment."

However, they have either withdrawn the restriction on using foreign or
prepay cards (and many tourists will have foreign prepay cards) or
they've just stopped mentioning it.

How many (if any) prepaid cards have contactless enabled? I suspect they
won't have it, as contactless transactions are all about being
super-quick, 'touch and go', without time for online authorisation.
Enabling contactless would be a risk for the issuer - existing prepaid
cards have a zero floor limit (i.e. automatic online authorisation), for
example.



Now maybe but the use of such cards will grow over time.

Have they met the deadline set when first introduced [Dec 2012]:

"From the end of 2013, contactless payment cards will be accepted on the
Tube, Docklands Light Railway, London Overground and trams."

I'm not looking forward to that because it would seem it obsoletes my
"Onepulse Barclay/Oyster" - the system charges neither rather than one
or both, apparently. Will they be sending me an automatic refund for the
stored amount?

"the system charges neither rather than one or both, apparently" -
really? I'd expect it to continue acting as an Oyster card when
presented to an Oyster validator (though I'd also expect the product to
be discontinued soon - when-ish does your card expire, if you don't mind
me asking?).

In message , at 11:37:31 on Fri, 3 Jan 2014,
Mizter T remarked:
However, they have either withdrawn the restriction on using foreign or
prepay cards (and many tourists will have foreign prepay cards) or
they've just stopped mentioning it.

How many (if any) prepaid cards have contactless enabled? I suspect
they won't have it, as contactless transactions are all about being
super-quick, 'touch and go', without time for online authorisation.
Enabling contactless would be a risk for the issuer - existing prepaid
cards have a zero floor limit (i.e. automatic online authorisation),
for example.

Yes, I know what the problem for the merchants is (very similar to the
old Electron/Solo issue), but a prepaid card is the sort of thing that
minors, tourists[1] and the uncreditworthy [all three of whom buy tube
tickets] are very likely to have.

Now maybe but the use of such cards will grow over time.

Have they met the deadline set when first introduced [Dec 2012]:

"From the end of 2013, contactless payment cards will be accepted on the
Tube, Docklands Light Railway, London Overground and trams."

I'm not looking forward to that because it would seem it obsoletes my
"Onepulse Barclay/Oyster" - the system charges neither rather than one
or both, apparently. Will they be sending me an automatic refund for the
stored amount?

"the system charges neither rather than one or both, apparently" -
really? I'd expect it to continue acting as an Oyster card when
presented to an Oyster validator

The December 2012 press release says:

"If an Oyster card and a contactless bankcard are presented to a reader
on a bus together (for instance, in a wallet), the readers will normally
reject them both, as it can't be sure which card was intended to be
used."

(though I'd also expect the product to be discontinued soon

That's a great shame as it reduces the plastic-card-bloat in my wallet.

Also a slap in the face for early adopters.

- when-ish does your card expire, if you don't mind me asking?).

Later this year.

[1] There's clearly a demand for "Europe compatible" prepay cards in the
USA, as they are on sale at airports there.
--
Roland Perry

On 03/01/2014 12:21, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 11:37:31 on Fri, 3 Jan 2014,
Mizter T remarked:
However, they have either withdrawn the restriction on using foreign or
prepay cards (and many tourists will have foreign prepay cards) or
they've just stopped mentioning it.

How many (if any) prepaid cards have contactless enabled? I suspect
they won't have it, as contactless transactions are all about being
super-quick, 'touch and go', without time for online authorisation.
Enabling contactless would be a risk for the issuer - existing prepaid
cards have a zero floor limit (i.e. automatic online authorisation),
for example.

Yes, I know what the problem for the merchants is (very similar to the
old Electron/Solo issue), but a prepaid card is the sort of thing that
minors, tourists[1] and the uncreditworthy [all three of whom buy tube
tickets] are very likely to have.

You ignored my point, which is that prepaid cards probably won't have
the contactless facility anyway.


Now maybe but the use of such cards will grow over time.

Have they met the deadline set when first introduced [Dec 2012]:

"From the end of 2013, contactless payment cards will be accepted on the
Tube, Docklands Light Railway, London Overground and trams."

I'm not looking forward to that because it would seem it obsoletes my
"Onepulse Barclay/Oyster" - the system charges neither rather than one
or both, apparently. Will they be sending me an automatic refund for the
stored amount?

"the system charges neither rather than one or both, apparently" -
really? I'd expect it to continue acting as an Oyster card when
presented to an Oyster validator

The December 2012 press release says:

"If an Oyster card and a contactless bankcard are presented to a reader
on a bus together (for instance, in a wallet), the readers will normally
reject them both, as it can't be sure which card was intended to be used."

That's talking about (say) a wallet with both an Oyster card and a
contactless bank card in it - not the OnePulse card, which was
specifically designed so that the EMV contactless and Oyster MiFare
elements didn't interfere with each other.

I've read nothing whatsoever about anyone having problems with a
OnePulse card in the past year that contactless bank card payments have
been available on the buses.


(though I'd also expect the product to be discontinued soon

That's a great shame as it reduces the plastic-card-bloat in my wallet.

Not if your contactless credit/debit card can be used in place of an
Oyster card it won't.


Also a slap in the face for early adopters.

Early adopters should be used to slaps in the face!


- when-ish does your card expire, if you don't mind me asking?).

Later this year.

I'd assume it won't be reissued as a OnePulse card. (I'd also guess that
getting the remaining credit off it won't be as easy as you'd like...
unless the Oyster part of the card just carries on working after the
credit card part expires?)

In message , at 12:31:25 on Fri, 3 Jan 2014,
Mizter T remarked:

However, they have either withdrawn the restriction on using foreign or
prepay cards (and many tourists will have foreign prepay cards) or
they've just stopped mentioning it.

How many (if any) prepaid cards have contactless enabled? I suspect
they won't have it, as contactless transactions are all about being
super-quick, 'touch and go', without time for online authorisation.
Enabling contactless would be a risk for the issuer - existing prepaid
cards have a zero floor limit (i.e. automatic online authorisation),
for example.

Yes, I know what the problem for the merchants is (very similar to the
old Electron/Solo issue), but a prepaid card is the sort of thing that
minors, tourists[1] and the uncreditworthy [all three of whom buy tube
tickets] are very likely to have.

You ignored my point, which is that prepaid cards probably won't have
the contactless facility anyway.

Until we do a market survey, we won't know.

If the answer is "no they don't" then a big bit of TfL's contactless
strategy goes up in smoke.

"If an Oyster card and a contactless bankcard are presented to a reader
on a bus together (for instance, in a wallet), the readers will normally
reject them both, as it can't be sure which card was intended to be used."

That's talking about (say) a wallet with both an Oyster card and a
contactless bank card in it - not the OnePulse card, which was
specifically designed so that the EMV contactless and Oyster MiFare
elements didn't interfere with each other.

How do they manage to make the two functions *in the same card* not
interfere, when the two functions *in adjacent cards" do?

Is there some sort of communication between the two halves, inside the
card, to decide "who is the boss" in various situations?

I've read nothing whatsoever about anyone having problems with a
OnePulse card in the past year that contactless bank card payments have
been available on the buses.

Nor have I, but I don't expect that OnePulse and bus users overlap very
much.

(though I'd also expect the product to be discontinued soon

That's a great shame as it reduces the plastic-card-bloat in my wallet.

Not if your contactless credit/debit card can be used in place of an
Oyster card it won't.

The OnePulse may well *be* my contactless credit card.

Also a slap in the face for early adopters.

Early adopters should be used to slaps in the face!

Just saying...

- when-ish does your card expire, if you don't mind me asking?).

Later this year.

I'd assume it won't be reissued as a OnePulse card. (I'd also guess
that getting the remaining credit off it won't be as easy as you'd
like... unless the Oyster part of the card just carries on working
after the credit card part expires?)

Dunno. Last time it was renewed it took a typical half-hour phone call
to the 'help' line to resolve transferring the credit. I didn't think to
try using the card as an "only an Oyster". But this time perhaps I will.

Doesn't solve the card-bloat issue though.
--
Roland Perry

On 03/01/2014 12:21, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:37:31 on Fri, 3 Jan 2014,
Mizter T remarked:
However, they have either withdrawn the restriction on using foreign or
prepay cards (and many tourists will have foreign prepay cards) or
they've just stopped mentioning it.

How many (if any) prepaid cards have contactless enabled? I suspect
they won't have it, as contactless transactions are all about being
super-quick, 'touch and go', without time for online authorisation.
Enabling contactless would be a risk for the issuer - existing prepaid
cards have a zero floor limit (i.e. automatic online authorisation),
for example.

Yes, I know what the problem for the merchants is (very similar to the
old Electron/Solo issue), but a prepaid card is the sort of thing that
minors, tourists[1] and the uncreditworthy [all three of whom buy tube
tickets] are very likely to have.

Now maybe but the use of such cards will grow over time.

Have they met the deadline set when first introduced [Dec 2012]:

"From the end of 2013, contactless payment cards will be accepted on the
Tube, Docklands Light Railway, London Overground and trams."

I'm not looking forward to that because it would seem it obsoletes my
"Onepulse Barclay/Oyster" - the system charges neither rather than one
or both, apparently. Will they be sending me an automatic refund for the
stored amount?

"the system charges neither rather than one or both, apparently" -
really? I'd expect it to continue acting as an Oyster card when
presented to an Oyster validator

The December 2012 press release says:

"If an Oyster card and a contactless bankcard are presented to a reader
on a bus together (for instance, in a wallet), the readers will normally
reject them both, as it can't be sure which card was intended to be used."

That doesn't happen everywhere. I have a contactless card for transport
from another city, which I keep with my Oyster. Some readers on the tube
and bus accept the Oyster with no problem/question, while others will
indicate that there are two cards.

I wonder if TfL would eventually do away with and accept either thumb
prints or have ceiling mounted readers that can read your face or
irises. Fares would be directly deducted from people's accounts.

The latter would eliminate the need for gates and their moving parts.

wrote in message ...
On 03/01/2014 12:21, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:37:31 on Fri, 3 Jan 2014,
Mizter T remarked:
However, they have either withdrawn the restriction on using foreign or
prepay cards (and many tourists will have foreign prepay cards) or
they've just stopped mentioning it.

How many (if any) prepaid cards have contactless enabled? I suspect
they won't have it, as contactless transactions are all about being
super-quick, 'touch and go', without time for online authorisation.
Enabling contactless would be a risk for the issuer - existing prepaid
cards have a zero floor limit (i.e. automatic online authorisation),
for example.

Yes, I know what the problem for the merchants is (very similar to the
old Electron/Solo issue), but a prepaid card is the sort of thing that
minors, tourists[1] and the uncreditworthy [all three of whom buy tube
tickets] are very likely to have.

Now maybe but the use of such cards will grow over time.

Have they met the deadline set when first introduced [Dec 2012]:

"From the end of 2013, contactless payment cards will be accepted on
the
Tube, Docklands Light Railway, London Overground and trams."

I'm not looking forward to that because it would seem it obsoletes my
"Onepulse Barclay/Oyster" - the system charges neither rather than one
or both, apparently. Will they be sending me an automatic refund for
the
stored amount?

"the system charges neither rather than one or both, apparently" -
really? I'd expect it to continue acting as an Oyster card when
presented to an Oyster validator

The December 2012 press release says:

"If an Oyster card and a contactless bankcard are presented to a reader
on a bus together (for instance, in a wallet), the readers will normally
reject them both, as it can't be sure which card was intended to be
used."

That doesn't happen everywhere. I have a contactless card for transport
from another city, which I keep with my Oyster. Some readers on the tube
and bus accept the Oyster with no problem/question, while others will
indicate that there are two cards.

I wonder if TfL would eventually do away with and accept either thumb
prints or have ceiling mounted readers that can read your face or irises.
Fares would be directly deducted from people's accounts.

I can just see the DM headlines now

tim

On Sun, Jan 05, 2014 at 09:45:59AM +0100, tim...... wrote:
wrote in message ...
I wonder if TfL would eventually do away with and accept either thumb
prints or have ceiling mounted readers that can read your face or irises.
Fares would be directly deducted from people's accounts.
I can just see the DM headlines now

How dare those blind hook-handed cripples dodge their fares?

--
David Cantrell | Official London Perl Mongers Bad Influence

In Victorian times, when every man wore a beard the size of a yew,
Britain ruled the world. In the early 20th century, when the beard
was trimmed to a moustache, we scraped through two world wars but
lost an empire. Today, when Mach3 Turbo multi-blades are the norm,
our national pride derives largely from beating the Swedes at
Olympic cycling.

Grow a beard. Your country needs you.

On Sat, 04 Jan 2014 13:47:21 +0000, "
wrote:

I wonder if TfL would eventually do away with and accept either thumb
prints or have ceiling mounted readers that can read your face or
irises. Fares would be directly deducted from people's accounts.

We should all have barcodes tattooed on our foreheads.

--
jhk

On Fri, Jan 03, 2014 at 12:21:20PM +0000, Roland Perry wrote:

That's a great shame as it reduces the plastic-card-bloat in my wallet.
Also a slap in the face for early adopters.

Not really. You, like loads of other early adopters, just guessed the
technological direction incorrectly. Early adopters of any technology
really have to expect this to happen occasionally, and stop whining
about it.

--
David Cantrell | Minister for Arbitrary Justice

PLEASE NOTE: This message was meant to offend everyone equally,
regardless of race, creed, sexual orientation, politics, choice
of beer, operating system, mode of transport, or their editor.