On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 04:11:24PM -0500, wrote:

Also, how do you keep an eye on your charges if you use the older gates that
reveal no useful information?

I have never seen any useful information displayed at a gate other than
variations on the theme of "your ticket didn't work, try again".

Oh, there are lots of other things displayed. But unless I stop and look
carefully while people queue up behind me, and then pull my phone out,
navigate to the right page on TfL's website, and carefully compare the
two - the "information" isn't useful information at all.

--
David Cantrell | even more awesome than a panda-fur coat

You are so cynical. And by "cynical", of course, I mean "correct".
-- Kurt Starsinic

On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 10:04:40AM -0700, wrote:

I have had four issues on Oyster.
[at most one of which was sorted out automatically]

So your point is the same as mine, that it really sucks that you have to
notice these problems yourself before anything gets done?

--
David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

In this episode, R2 and Luke weld the doors shut on their X-Wing,
and Chewbacca discovers that his Ewok girlfriend is really just a
Womble with its nose chopped off.

In article ,
David Cantrell wrote:
* yes, really. Explain this:

Tue 15 Apr
09:15 - 10:14 Thornton Heath - Aldgate East: GBP 5.30
18:49 - 19:56 Aldgate East - Thornton Heath: GBP 5.30
Total: GBP10.60

OK, that looks sane. Same amount in both directions.

Thu 17 Apr
09:07 - 10:16 Thornton Heath - Aldgate East: GBP 5.30
18:41 - 19:01 Aldgate East - Victoria : GBP 2.20
19:50 - 20:26 Victoria - Thornton Heath : GBP 2.60
Total: GBP10.10


The Thornton Heath - Aldgate East fare is 5.30 (peak) and 4.10 (offpeak)

The Aldgate East - Victoria Fare is 2.20 peak/offpeak.
The Victoria - Thornton Heath fare is 3.70 peak, 2.60 offpeak.

Off peak starts in the evening at 19:00.

So there are _four_ possible fares for the journey home:

as a "two leg" trip, with both legs peak: 5.90.
as a "single leg" trip at peak time: 5.30.
as a "two leg trip", with the Vic - Thornton leg offpeak: 4.80
as a "single leg" trip at offpeak: 4.10

I'm not entirely sure that the introduction of "offpeak" fares
qualifies for "non-eclidean fares", but there you go.



--
Mike Bristow

On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 14:01:08 +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
Well, mostly happy. Once I'd found out that they'd ****ed up, and I'd
filled in a form on their website, there was an additional step
required. Before they could refund me, they had to talk to me on the
phone. Which is a bit of a problem, because I'm deaf, but eventually and
with the nice gentleman in the call-centre repeating himself a lot we
got it sorted.

They claim to have a Textphone. Is that any help in these situations?

In article ,
(David Cantrell) wrote:

On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 09:31:14AM +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
22:28:28 on Mon, 21 Apr 2014, Scott
remarked:
When I had a difficulty (my own fault) it was corrected very
quickly.
But too many people encounter problems, not always because they've
failed to take a degree in "advanced orienteering at Wimbledon
station".

I don't even mind that there are problems. What I object to is:

* TfL's computers knew that there was a problem with this journey;
* TfL's computers knew an email address associated with that card;
* TfL's computers could have notified me automatically but didn't.

If they'd emailed me to notify me that there was a problem I'd be
happy.

Well, mostly happy. Once I'd found out that they'd ****ed up, and I'd
filled in a form on their website, there was an additional step
required. Before they could refund me, they had to talk to me on the
phone. Which is a bit of a problem, because I'm deaf, but eventually and
with the nice gentleman in the call-centre repeating himself a lot we
got it sorted.

It's still not obvious that I've been charged the right amount, because
working out what the fares should be requires an advanced degree in
non-Euclidean economics*, but I did at least get *some* money refunded.
Given that I'm not a conspiracy theorist I'm going to assume that I was
refunded the right amount.

* yes, really. Explain this:

Tue 15 Apr
09:15 - 10:14 Thornton Heath - Aldgate East: GBP 5.30
18:49 - 19:56 Aldgate East - Thornton Heath: GBP 5.30
Total: GBP10.60

OK, that looks sane. Same amount in both directions.

Thu 17 Apr
09:07 - 10:16 Thornton Heath - Aldgate East: GBP 5.30
18:41 - 19:01 Aldgate East - Victoria : GBP 2.20
19:50 - 20:26 Victoria - Thornton Heath : GBP 2.60
Total: GBP10.10

Apparently if I spend too long hanging around at Victoria, making it
think that I made three journeys instead of two, the price goes down.

I would suggest that the last of those journeys:

19:50 - 20:26 Victoria - Thornton Heath : GBP 2.60

was charged off-peak while the rest were charged at peak rates. The Peak
fare Victoria-Thornton Heath is £3.70 and the through peak fare £10.60 so
Oyster took advantage of you break of journey to save you money.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(David Cantrell) wrote:

On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 04:11:24PM -0500,
wrote:

Also, how do you keep an eye on your charges if you use the older
gates that reveal no useful information?

I have never seen any useful information displayed at a gate other than
variations on the theme of "your ticket didn't work, try again".

Oh, there are lots of other things displayed. But unless I stop and look
carefully while people queue up behind me, and then pull my phone out,
navigate to the right page on TfL's website, and carefully compare the
two - the "information" isn't useful information at all.

It tells you the fare deducted and the new card balance if it's not one of
the old gates.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote

(Recliner) wrote:

They can buy a one day travel card.

But now only zone 1-6? Most tourists don't travel outside zones 1 and 2,
unless they're Harry Potter fans, who need Watford.

I assume he means from outside the zones which have always been 1-6. It
depends heavily on the TOC. Worth buying from Oxford (FGW) but not from
Cambridge (FCC).


Both really.

On a day trip the the CDR+ODTC combo ticket (or the buy two tickets option
previously discussed here).

On a short visit buy a ODTC daily, it may cost more than PAYG for two or
three tube trips but it's flat rate so you know you will not be ripped off
and you can get a railcard discount.

And tourists do go to Hampton Court, Kew, Cutty Sark, Hendon, Greenwich,
Fulham Palace and even Box Hill and Heathrow.

--
Mike D

On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 18:15:39 +0100
Paul Corfield wrote:
I am amazed that ordinary punters manage to miss those headlines. I
agree it would not be usual fare for tourists to see that info but
then again I've no idea what rip offs there are with the Navigo
smartcard in Paris or Miki in Melbourne.

Most cities don't have to worry about all this nonsense in the first place.
They charge flat fares - problem solved.

And yes it *could* be done in London - its done in new york and moscow, both
of which are larger systems than the underground.

--
Spud

In article , (Michael R N
Dolbear) wrote:

wrote

(Recliner) wrote:

They can buy a one day travel card.

But now only zone 1-6? Most tourists don't travel outside zones 1 and
2, unless they're Harry Potter fans, who need Watford.

I assume he means from outside the zones which have always been
1-6. It depends heavily on the TOC. Worth buying from Oxford (FGW)
but not from Cambridge (FCC).

Both really.

On a day trip the the CDR+ODTC combo ticket (or the buy two tickets
option previously discussed here).

From Cambridge Day Travelcards are best if sensibly priced for the London
travel required. Easy at weekends with Super-Off-Peak ones.

On a short visit buy a ODTC daily, it may cost more than PAYG for two
or three tube trips but it's flat rate so you know you will not be
ripped off and you can get a railcard discount.

And tourists do go to Hampton Court, Kew, Cutty Sark, Hendon,
Greenwich, Fulham Palace and even Box Hill and Heathrow.

Heathrow is one of the special requirements. If coming back through it you
often need to buy an ODTC in advance from Cambridge because there are no
sensible Heathrow to Cambridge tickets.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 23/04/2014 18:15, Paul Corfield wrote:

Despite the annual screaming headline of "Oyster Rip Off" from the
Standard, BBC London and ITV London when one of the London Assembly
members does their regular FOI request for the level of overcharges /
refunds / Oyster deposits held?

I am amazed that ordinary punters manage to miss those headlines.

To be fair, ordinary punters are probably amazed that the people who
read u.t.l. are (I suspect) largely unaware of what some member of a
popular beat combo wore yesterday, or what some celebrity said about
some other celebrity. After all, it was in the Metro and everything.


--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK