In message , at 22:28:28 on
Mon, 21 Apr 2014, Scott remarked:
Tens of thousands of passengers use Oyster every day
without incident. It is a hugely useful facility.

Especially when loaded with a season ticket. It also has the potential
to be useful as a "not very often" PAYG card.

When I had a difficulty (my own fault) it was corrected very quickly.

But too many people encounter problems, not always because they've
failed to take a degree in "advanced orienteering at Wimbledon station".
--
Roland Perry

On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 09:31:14AM +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 22:28:28 on
Mon, 21 Apr 2014, Scott remarked:
When I had a difficulty (my own fault) it was corrected very quickly.
But too many people encounter problems, not always because they've
failed to take a degree in "advanced orienteering at Wimbledon station".

I don't even mind that there are problems. What I object to is:

* TfL's computers knew that there was a problem with this journey;
* TfL's computers knew an email address associated with that card;
* TfL's computers could have notified me automatically but didn't.

If they'd emailed me to notify me that there was a problem I'd be happy.

Well, mostly happy. Once I'd found out that they'd ****ed up, and I'd
filled in a form on their website, there was an additional step
required. Before they could refund me, they had to talk to me on the
phone. Which is a bit of a problem, because I'm deaf, but eventually and
with the nice gentleman in the call-centre repeating himself a lot we
got it sorted.

It's still not obvious that I've been charged the right amount, because
working out what the fares should be requires an advanced degree in
non-Euclidean economics*, but I did at least get *some* money refunded.
Given that I'm not a conspiracy theorist I'm going to assume that I was
refunded the right amount.

* yes, really. Explain this:

Tue 15 Apr
09:15 - 10:14 Thornton Heath - Aldgate East: GBP 5.30
18:49 - 19:56 Aldgate East - Thornton Heath: GBP 5.30
Total: GBP10.60

OK, that looks sane. Same amount in both directions.

Thu 17 Apr
09:07 - 10:16 Thornton Heath - Aldgate East: GBP 5.30
18:41 - 19:01 Aldgate East - Victoria : GBP 2.20
19:50 - 20:26 Victoria - Thornton Heath : GBP 2.60
Total: GBP10.10

Apparently if I spend too long hanging around at Victoria, making it
think that I made three journeys instead of two, the price goes down.

--
David Cantrell | Official London Perl Mongers Bad Influence

Erudite is when you make a classical allusion to a
feather. Kinky is when you use the whole chicken.

In article ,
David Cantrell wrote:
* yes, really. Explain this:

Tue 15 Apr
09:15 - 10:14 Thornton Heath - Aldgate East: GBP 5.30
18:49 - 19:56 Aldgate East - Thornton Heath: GBP 5.30
Total: GBP10.60

OK, that looks sane. Same amount in both directions.

Thu 17 Apr
09:07 - 10:16 Thornton Heath - Aldgate East: GBP 5.30
18:41 - 19:01 Aldgate East - Victoria : GBP 2.20
19:50 - 20:26 Victoria - Thornton Heath : GBP 2.60
Total: GBP10.10


The Thornton Heath - Aldgate East fare is 5.30 (peak) and 4.10 (offpeak)

The Aldgate East - Victoria Fare is 2.20 peak/offpeak.
The Victoria - Thornton Heath fare is 3.70 peak, 2.60 offpeak.

Off peak starts in the evening at 19:00.

So there are _four_ possible fares for the journey home:

as a "two leg" trip, with both legs peak: 5.90.
as a "single leg" trip at peak time: 5.30.
as a "two leg trip", with the Vic - Thornton leg offpeak: 4.80
as a "single leg" trip at offpeak: 4.10

I'm not entirely sure that the introduction of "offpeak" fares
qualifies for "non-eclidean fares", but there you go.



--
Mike Bristow

On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 02:50:13PM +0100, Mike Bristow wrote:
In article ,
David Cantrell wrote:
Tue 15 Apr
09:15 - 10:14 Thornton Heath - Aldgate East: GBP 5.30
18:49 - 19:56 Aldgate East - Thornton Heath: GBP 5.30

The Aldgate East - Victoria Fare is 2.20 peak/offpeak.
The Victoria - Thornton Heath fare is 3.70 peak, 2.60 offpeak.
Off peak starts in the evening at 19:00.
So there are _four_ possible fares for the journey home:
as a "two leg" trip, with both legs peak: 5.90.
as a "single leg" trip at peak time: 5.30.
as a "two leg trip", with the Vic - Thornton leg offpeak: 4.80
as a "single leg" trip at offpeak: 4.10

That means that if I leave Aldgate East at 18:49 I should be charged
a total of 4.80, because I won't go through the NR barriers at Victoria
until after 19:00. But I'm actually charged 5.30.

--
David Cantrell | A machine for turning tea into grumpiness

Immigration: making Britain great since AD43

David Cantrell wrote:
On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 02:50:13PM +0100, Mike Bristow wrote:
In article ,
David Cantrell wrote:
Tue 15 Apr
09:15 - 10:14 Thornton Heath - Aldgate East: GBP 5.30
18:49 - 19:56 Aldgate East - Thornton Heath: GBP 5.30

The Aldgate East - Victoria Fare is 2.20 peak/offpeak.
The Victoria - Thornton Heath fare is 3.70 peak, 2.60 offpeak.
Off peak starts in the evening at 19:00.
So there are _four_ possible fares for the journey home:
as a "two leg" trip, with both legs peak: 5.90.
as a "single leg" trip at peak time: 5.30.
as a "two leg trip", with the Vic - Thornton leg offpeak: 4.80
as a "single leg" trip at offpeak: 4.10

That means that if I leave Aldgate East at 18:49 I should be charged
a total of 4.80, because I won't go through the NR barriers at Victoria
until after 19:00. But I'm actually charged 5.30.

That looks correct -- the fare is based on when you entered, not left, the
system. So a journey starting at 18:49 is charged at peak prices.

In article
,
(Recliner) wrote:

David Cantrell wrote:
On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 02:50:13PM +0100, Mike Bristow wrote:
In article ,
David Cantrell wrote:
Tue 15 Apr
09:15 - 10:14 Thornton Heath - Aldgate East: GBP 5.30
18:49 - 19:56 Aldgate East - Thornton Heath: GBP 5.30

The Aldgate East - Victoria Fare is 2.20 peak/offpeak.
The Victoria - Thornton Heath fare is 3.70 peak, 2.60 offpeak.
Off peak starts in the evening at 19:00.
So there are _four_ possible fares for the journey home:
as a "two leg" trip, with both legs peak: 5.90.
as a "single leg" trip at peak time: 5.30.
as a "two leg trip", with the Vic - Thornton leg offpeak: 4.80
as a "single leg" trip at offpeak: 4.10

That means that if I leave Aldgate East at 18:49 I should be charged
a total of 4.80, because I won't go through the NR barriers at Victoria
until after 19:00. But I'm actually charged 5.30.

That looks correct -- the fare is based on when you entered, not left, the
system. So a journey starting at 18:49 is charged at peak prices.

The difference is if the journey is split into two. I am not clear why this
journey might or might not be so split, given that touch out and in at
Victoria must happen.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote:
In article
,
(Recliner) wrote:

David Cantrell wrote:
On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 02:50:13PM +0100, Mike Bristow wrote:
In article ,
David Cantrell wrote:
Tue 15 Apr
09:15 - 10:14 Thornton Heath - Aldgate East: GBP 5.30
18:49 - 19:56 Aldgate East - Thornton Heath: GBP 5.30

The Aldgate East - Victoria Fare is 2.20 peak/offpeak.
The Victoria - Thornton Heath fare is 3.70 peak, 2.60 offpeak.
Off peak starts in the evening at 19:00.
So there are _four_ possible fares for the journey home:
as a "two leg" trip, with both legs peak: 5.90.
as a "single leg" trip at peak time: 5.30.
as a "two leg trip", with the Vic - Thornton leg offpeak: 4.80
as a "single leg" trip at offpeak: 4.10

That means that if I leave Aldgate East at 18:49 I should be charged
a total of 4.80, because I won't go through the NR barriers at Victoria
until after 19:00. But I'm actually charged 5.30.

That looks correct -- the fare is based on when you entered, not left, the
system. So a journey starting at 18:49 is charged at peak prices.

The difference is if the journey is split into two. I am not clear why this
journey might or might not be so split, given that touch out and in at
Victoria must happen.

Presumably it's an OSI, so it would be treated as one peak journey.

On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 14:01:08 +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
Well, mostly happy. Once I'd found out that they'd ****ed up, and I'd
filled in a form on their website, there was an additional step
required. Before they could refund me, they had to talk to me on the
phone. Which is a bit of a problem, because I'm deaf, but eventually and
with the nice gentleman in the call-centre repeating himself a lot we
got it sorted.

They claim to have a Textphone. Is that any help in these situations?

On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 03:25:23PM +0100, David Walters wrote:
On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 14:01:08 +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
Well, mostly happy. Once I'd found out that they'd ****ed up, and I'd
filled in a form on their website, there was an additional step
required. Before they could refund me, they had to talk to me on the
phone. Which is a bit of a problem, because I'm deaf, but eventually and
with the nice gentleman in the call-centre repeating himself a lot we
got it sorted.
They claim to have a Textphone. Is that any help in these situations?

Not really, because I'm not deaf enough to make such an expensive device
necessary. And if someone is going to communicate using text, the
interweb is a much better medium. And because as far as I can tell all
textphones are designed to work with those obsolete fixed line things. I
don't even remember where the BT socket is in my flat!

--
David Cantrell | A machine for turning tea into grumpiness

Longum iter est per praecepta, breve et efficax per exempla.

In article ,
(David Cantrell) wrote:

On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 09:31:14AM +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
22:28:28 on Mon, 21 Apr 2014, Scott
remarked:
When I had a difficulty (my own fault) it was corrected very
quickly.
But too many people encounter problems, not always because they've
failed to take a degree in "advanced orienteering at Wimbledon
station".

I don't even mind that there are problems. What I object to is:

* TfL's computers knew that there was a problem with this journey;
* TfL's computers knew an email address associated with that card;
* TfL's computers could have notified me automatically but didn't.

If they'd emailed me to notify me that there was a problem I'd be
happy.

Well, mostly happy. Once I'd found out that they'd ****ed up, and I'd
filled in a form on their website, there was an additional step
required. Before they could refund me, they had to talk to me on the
phone. Which is a bit of a problem, because I'm deaf, but eventually and
with the nice gentleman in the call-centre repeating himself a lot we
got it sorted.

It's still not obvious that I've been charged the right amount, because
working out what the fares should be requires an advanced degree in
non-Euclidean economics*, but I did at least get *some* money refunded.
Given that I'm not a conspiracy theorist I'm going to assume that I was
refunded the right amount.

* yes, really. Explain this:

Tue 15 Apr
09:15 - 10:14 Thornton Heath - Aldgate East: GBP 5.30
18:49 - 19:56 Aldgate East - Thornton Heath: GBP 5.30
Total: GBP10.60

OK, that looks sane. Same amount in both directions.

Thu 17 Apr
09:07 - 10:16 Thornton Heath - Aldgate East: GBP 5.30
18:41 - 19:01 Aldgate East - Victoria : GBP 2.20
19:50 - 20:26 Victoria - Thornton Heath : GBP 2.60
Total: GBP10.10

Apparently if I spend too long hanging around at Victoria, making it
think that I made three journeys instead of two, the price goes down.

I would suggest that the last of those journeys:

19:50 - 20:26 Victoria - Thornton Heath : GBP 2.60

was charged off-peak while the rest were charged at peak rates. The Peak
fare Victoria-Thornton Heath is £3.70 and the through peak fare £10.60 so
Oyster took advantage of you break of journey to save you money.

--
Colin Rosenstiel