"Fat Richard" wrote in message
om...
I have to say that I was amazed how the Sth central service was still
doing at 13.00 when I went to work some 12 hours after the initial
incident.

Still as bad at 20:00, when I passed through the area. Numerous up trains
running between 20 and 90 minutes late due to the knock-on effect of crew
displacement earlier in the day, down trains equally as late if not later,
where not cancelled. Victoria concourse awash with irate passengers.

Is this any way to run a railway?

"Jack Taylor" wrote in message k...
"CIG_BIG_CIG" wrote in message
om...

Male person, scene treated as a crime scene by BTP and body not
recovered until 1300 approx.

Which once again highlights how bloody disgraceful it is that nowadays the
police are permitted to cause disruption on such a scale to the general
public. Perhaps they should be forced to compensate all of those caught up
in their incompetence (as everyone else seems to be expected to these
days) - that might focus their minds to get the job done more quickly.
Bearing in mind that this incident allegedly occurred at around 01:00 the
railway should have been cleared and open for operation by 05:00 at the
latest.

I take it this is meant as a rather morbid joke? Just in case it isn't
....

A body is found, possibly badly damaged - had it been hit by a train?
- at 1am and you expect the police to complete their scene-of-crime
investigations within a couple of hours, in the middle of the night?

By the way, I'm told that the new system is that SOCO's are only
called out when it's not known how the body got there, so it could be
a murder victim. When railway staff see the person alive - ie clear
suicides - it's now handled at a less painstaking level.

Nonetheless, if one of my friends or relatives was found dead on a
railway at 1am, I'd be a bit upset if no more than a cursory
examination of the scene took place.

Ian

"Jack Taylor" wrote in message k...

It's only in the last handful of years that it has taken anything like the
ludicrous amounts of time that it now takes to resolve such matters. That,
despite the significant advances in forensic technology and DNA testing etc.
that have been made.

No, it's *because* of those advances. If there is a suspicion of
murder, it's now worth looking for very, very much smaller pieces of
evidence than ten or even five years ago. And that takes longer.

As other posters have noted: it doesn't take as long
anywhere else in Europe, it doesn't take as long to resolve a road incident
and it never used to take as long to resolve railway accidents or suicides
as it does now, suspicious or otherwise.

And if there is a chance that it's not a railway accident, but a
murder victim dumped on the line ... ?

Ian

David Hansen wrote in message . ..
On Sat, 7 Feb 2004 21:57:19 -0000 someone who may be "Richard"
wrote this:-

Only car-on-car. Remember train crashes often see the line closed for days.

It now seems to be weeks.

Care to give an example? And don't try Great Heck, because a friend of
mine was duty Railtrack officer there, and I know what they were
looking for, where they had to look, and what they found. It's not
pretty.

Bear in mind as well that roads are hard to damage and can quickly be
patched up if they are damaged. Neither is true of railway lines,
particularly where pointwork or overhead are concerened.

Ian

Roland Perry wrote in message ...

That's an extreme example, but
surely the long time it took to investigate this particular incident
points to a lack of immediately available resources, rather than a lot
of work being required.

Or points to it happening at one o'clock in the morning in the middle
of winter, and them needing a few hours of daylight to do a proper
search of the area?

Ian

On 9 Feb 2004 01:49:51 -0800 someone who may be
(Ian Johnston) wrote this:-

If there is a suspicion of
murder, it's now worth looking for very, very much smaller pieces of
evidence than ten or even five years ago. And that takes longer.

Despite such "fingertip search" activities by the police it remains
a fact that they and the "experts" advising them did not recognise
the AWS receiver or the ATP master byte card of the train that
crashed at Southall. Had it not been for railway staff Inspector
Clouseau and their colleagues would have lost these items.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

On 9 Feb 2004 01:54:48 -0800 someone who may be
(Ian Johnston) wrote this:-

Only car-on-car. Remember train crashes often see the line closed for days.

It now seems to be weeks.

Care to give an example?

Ladbroke Grove, Hatfield. Potters Bar I'm not sure of (the Railway
Inspectorate used to be sufficiently proud to mention the time taken
to clear sites in their reports, the so-called health and safety mob
are rather less keen).

And don't try Great Heck,

Ah, someone else who thinks that they can read my mind. In that case
I might be persuaded that the long closure was worth it.

However, compare all these cases, including Great Heck, with the way
services were restored after Harrow & Wealdstone, Lewisham St Johns
and Clapham Junction. I don't think the world is better off because
of the long periods lines are closed for and neither does it help
discover the causes any better.

Bear in mind as well that roads are hard to damage and can quickly be
patched up if they are damaged. Neither is true of railway lines,

Debatable.

particularly where pointwork

Hence the substitution of plain line. However, if components are
available, such as suitable switches, then it does not take that
long to install switch and crossing work.

or overhead are concerened.

Overhead is quick and easy to install, even if masts have been
destroyed. One may need a speed restriction for a few days until a
proper repair is made, but that is a process that is easy enough to
manage.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

On 9 Feb 2004 01:57:26 -0800 someone who may be
(Ian Johnston) wrote this:-

Or points to it happening at one o'clock in the morning in the middle
of winter, and them needing a few hours of daylight to do a proper
search of the area?

The steel wheels on steel rails do not really pick up evidence and
distribute it further down the track. If necessary fit some sheets
of plastic under the rails and let the trains pass. Easy peasy, even
with conductor rails.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

In message , Ian
Johnston writes
Or points to it happening at one o'clock in the morning in the middle
of winter, and them needing a few hours of daylight to do a proper
search of the area?

Or that the "resource" they are missing is floodlighting?
--
Roland Perry

"Jack Taylor" wrote in message
...

"Fat Richard" wrote in message
om...
I have to say that I was amazed how the Sth central service was still
doing at 13.00 when I went to work some 12 hours after the initial
incident.

Still as bad at 20:00, when I passed through the area. Numerous up trains
running between 20 and 90 minutes late due to the knock-on effect of crew
displacement earlier in the day, down trains equally as late if not later,
where not cancelled. Victoria concourse awash with irate passengers.

Is this any way to run a railway?

Whether or not the incident could or should have been cleared more quickly,
it does seem that SC and NR did not have an adequate contingency plan to
cope with a line closure at Balham. In the Metro area, suspension of the
whole of the Victoria service (apart from Victoria - London Bridge via
Denmark Hill) would still have left most stations with a London Bridge
service. For express services, the capacity of London Bridge to accept
diversions should be known, and those that couldn't be fitted in there
should have been cancelled or terminated further south - East Croydon,
Gatwick, Three Bridges or Haywards Heath, for example. Was the Tulse Hill,
Herne Hill route used for diversions to Victoria? - probably the best use of
the limited capacity available this way would be for Gatwick Express
(bearing in mind the effect on passengers of missed planes) - with SC
passengers conveyed from Victoria on GatEx to Gatwick, or by LUL to London
Bridge.

Peter