At Turkey Street Station a brook flows pretty much beneath the station.
Just west of the station is an extra bridge over the river, which seems
to hold nothing except a small shop. I can't understand why a bridge
over a brook would have been built, just so a shop can be put on it. The
only thing I can think of is that the shop used to be a mill, but it
doesn't look like a mill.

Which makes me wonder, why are mills usually built astride the river?
Obviously the waterwheels need to be in the river, but the bulk of the
building could be on the shore, couldn't it? Putting the building over
the river seems an unnecessary expense... after all, most rivers do not
have buildings on them, except in Central London.

Basil Jet wrote on 03 May 2014 13:06:34 ...

At Turkey Street Station a brook flows pretty much beneath the station.
Just west of the station is an extra bridge over the river, which seems
to hold nothing except a small shop. I can't understand why a bridge
over a brook would have been built, just so a shop can be put on it. The
only thing I can think of is that the shop used to be a mill, but it
doesn't look like a mill.

Is the shop in the original station building? According to Wikipedia at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey_...ailway_station :

"When originally built the station was on the other side of the railway
bridge and a wide footbridge over the Turkey Brook led directly to the
Cheshunt bound platform. This entrance was disused from the early 1970s
onwards and the former station building was converted to a newsagent and
general store, the footbridge was used for storage for the shop and the
entrance to the actual station area had a large iron gate but was
bricked up when the station was rebuilt."

Which makes me wonder, why are mills usually built astride the river?
Obviously the waterwheels need to be in the river, but the bulk of the
building could be on the shore, couldn't it? Putting the building over
the river seems an unnecessary expense... after all, most rivers do not
have buildings on them, except in Central London.

Although many mills are built astride the watercourse that drives the
water-wheel, the main river is often partly diverted into a narrow mill
race for the purpose. Building across a mill race is much easier than
building across a wide river. In any case the mill contains much
machinery linked to the water-wheel, and it's convenient to house it all
in one building.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

On 2014\05\03 16:26, Richard J. wrote:
Basil Jet wrote on 03 May 2014 13:06:34 ...

At Turkey Street Station a brook flows pretty much beneath the station.
Just west of the station is an extra bridge over the river, which seems
to hold nothing except a small shop. I can't understand why a bridge
over a brook would have been built, just so a shop can be put on it. The
only thing I can think of is that the shop used to be a mill, but it
doesn't look like a mill.

Is the shop in the original station building? According to Wikipedia at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey_...ailway_station :

"When originally built the station was on the other side of the railway
bridge and a wide footbridge over the Turkey Brook led directly to the
Cheshunt bound platform. This entrance was disused from the early 1970s
onwards and the former station building was converted to a newsagent and
general store, the footbridge was used for storage for the shop and the
entrance to the actual station area had a large iron gate but was
bricked up when the station was rebuilt."

Brilliant, that makes perfect sense. Thanks.

Which makes me wonder, why are mills usually built astride the river?
Obviously the waterwheels need to be in the river, but the bulk of the
building could be on the shore, couldn't it? Putting the building over
the river seems an unnecessary expense... after all, most rivers do not
have buildings on them, except in Central London.

Although many mills are built astride the watercourse that drives the
water-wheel, the main river is often partly diverted into a narrow mill
race for the purpose. Building across a mill race is much easier than
building across a wide river. In any case the mill contains much
machinery linked to the water-wheel, and it's convenient to house it all
in one building.

I'm not convinced... no matter how narrow a stream is, it won't normally
be built over unless it's a high density urban area. And I don't see the
benefit in anything much being over the waterwheel.. axles of arbitrary
length can transfer the torque to a river bank site, although I suppose
some energy would be lost.

Good to hear from you, anyway! I think it's 3.5 years since I was at a
LURS meeting.

I'm not convinced... no matter how narrow a stream is, it won't
normally be built over unless it's a high density urban area. And I
don't see the benefit in anything much being over the waterwheel..
axles of arbitrary length can transfer the torque to a river bank
site, although I suppose some energy would be lost.

FWIW account at one tidal mill was:

a. water mills tend not to be built on solid rock[1]
b. so pretty hefty foundations tend to be needed for the wheel which
exerts a fair old force with vibration and all
c. having built those foundations it'd be waste not to use them for
the mill itself, the more so as
d. when you have to make everything out of wood and what the local
smith can fettle you want to keep everything in the power chain as short
and simple as you can

[1] obviously there are exceptions and you may be lucky enough to have a
stream running through stone. Of course that may not be near good land
for corn
--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

On 2014\05\03 18:43, Robin wrote:
I'm not convinced... no matter how narrow a stream is, it won't
normally be built over unless it's a high density urban area. And I
don't see the benefit in anything much being over the waterwheel..
axles of arbitrary length can transfer the torque to a river bank
site, although I suppose some energy would be lost.

FWIW account at one tidal mill was:

a. water mills tend not to be built on solid rock[1]
b. so pretty hefty foundations tend to be needed for the wheel which
exerts a fair old force with vibration and all
c. having built those foundations it'd be waste not to use them for
the mill itself, the more so as
d. when you have to make everything out of wood and what the local
smith can fettle you want to keep everything in the power chain as short
and simple as you can

[1] obviously there are exceptions and you may be lucky enough to have a
stream running through stone. Of course that may not be near good land
for corn

Thanks! Really glad I asked now!

On Sat, May 03, 2014 at 05:08:11PM +0100, Basil Jet wrote:

I'm not convinced... no matter how narrow a stream is, it won't normally
be built over unless it's a high density urban area.

I wouldn't call Winchester a high density urban area even now, let alone
at the time when its mill was built straddling the river.

--
David Cantrell | Pope | First Church of the Symmetrical Internet

Vegetarian: n: a person who, due to malnutrition caused by
poor lifestyle choices, is eight times more likely to
catch TB than a normal person

On 2014\05\06 15:01, David Cantrell wrote:
On Sat, May 03, 2014 at 05:08:11PM +0100, Basil Jet wrote:

I'm not convinced... no matter how narrow a stream is, it won't normally
be built over unless it's a high density urban area.

I wouldn't call Winchester a high density urban area even now, let alone
at the time when its mill was built straddling the river.

That's precisely my point - mills are often built over rivers even
though no other building is.

In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

Basil Jet wrote on 03 May 2014 13:06:34 ...

At Turkey Street Station a brook flows pretty much beneath the station.
Just west of the station is an extra bridge over the river, which seems
to hold nothing except a small shop. I can't understand why a bridge
over a brook would have been built, just so a shop can be put on it. The
only thing I can think of is that the shop used to be a mill, but it
doesn't look like a mill.

Is the shop in the original station building? According to Wikipedia
at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey_...ailway_station :

"When originally built the station was on the other side of the
railway bridge and a wide footbridge over the Turkey Brook led
directly to the Cheshunt bound platform. This entrance was disused
from the early 1970s onwards and the former station building was
converted to a newsagent and general store, the footbridge was used
for storage for the shop and the entrance to the actual station area
had a large iron gate but was bricked up when the station was
rebuilt."

Turkey Street station was closed from the First World War until the Bishop's
Stortford electrification in the early 1960s, was it not?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote on 03 May 2014 19:40:19 ...
In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

Basil Jet wrote on 03 May 2014 13:06:34 ...

At Turkey Street Station a brook flows pretty much beneath the station.
Just west of the station is an extra bridge over the river, which seems
to hold nothing except a small shop. I can't understand why a bridge
over a brook would have been built, just so a shop can be put on it. The
only thing I can think of is that the shop used to be a mill, but it
doesn't look like a mill.

Is the shop in the original station building? According to Wikipedia
at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey_...ailway_station :

"When originally built the station was on the other side of the
railway bridge and a wide footbridge over the Turkey Brook led
directly to the Cheshunt bound platform. This entrance was disused
from the early 1970s onwards and the former station building was
converted to a newsagent and general store, the footbridge was used
for storage for the shop and the entrance to the actual station area
had a large iron gate but was bricked up when the station was
rebuilt."

Turkey Street station was closed from the First World War until the Bishop's
Stortford electrification in the early 1960s, was it not?

That's right. Joe Brown's London Railway Atlas shows it opening as
Forty Hill when the line (Southbury Loop) was built in 1891. There was
a suspension of passenger services from 1909 to 1915 and again from
1919. It was renamed as Turkey Street when it reopened in 1960.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

wrote on 03 May 2014 19:40:19 ...
In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

Basil Jet wrote on 03 May 2014 13:06:34
...

At Turkey Street Station a brook flows pretty much beneath the
station. Just west of the station is an extra bridge over the river,
which seems to hold nothing except a small shop. I can't understand
why a bridge over a brook would have been built, just so a shop can be
put on it. The only thing I can think of is that the shop used to be a
mill, but it doesn't look like a mill.

Is the shop in the original station building? According to Wikipedia
at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey_...ailway_station :

"When originally built the station was on the other side of the
railway bridge and a wide footbridge over the Turkey Brook led
directly to the Cheshunt bound platform. This entrance was disused
from the early 1970s onwards and the former station building was
converted to a newsagent and general store, the footbridge was used
for storage for the shop and the entrance to the actual station area
had a large iron gate but was bricked up when the station was
rebuilt."

Turkey Street station was closed from the First World War until the
Bishop's Stortford electrification in the early 1960s, was it not?

That's right. Joe Brown's London Railway Atlas shows it opening as
Forty Hill when the line (Southbury Loop) was built in 1891. There
was a suspension of passenger services from 1909 to 1915 and again
from 1919. It was renamed as Turkey Street when it reopened in 1960.

When was the loop also called "Turkey St"?

--
Colin Rosenstiel