In message , at 12:01:48 on
Mon, 19 May 2014, Paul Corfield remarked:
On Sun, 18 May 2014 12:57:09 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 17:31:03 on
Sat, 17 May 2014, Paul Corfield remarked:
But when? A Cambridge Guided Bus "late Summer", or something else?

I still expect the rail mode rollout to happen in June or July -
barring the discovery of some system nasties in the trial. Hopefully
TfL and their contractors have debugged the system sufficiently to
avoid this happening.

Let's compare notes early August.

Why? - so you can go "nerr, nerr told you I was right about the
timing?"

Not at all. One of the topics which fascinates me is "vapourware", and I
collect examples of it. When it comes to transport ticketing it's like
shooting fish in a barrel, unfortunately.

You dreadful old cynic you. I thought *I* was bad.

Last November the Standard reported (and they'd only have said it if
officially briefed):

Five thousand Londoners will become the first commuters on the
Tube to use the contactless system in a two-month pilot.

Already accepted on buses, it will then be fully introduced on
the Tube, DLR and London Overground in early summer 2014.

Meanwhile other industry media reported (this April):

[Tfl] had planned to be ready by this summer after delaying the
launch from the end of last year. But it now says it will be
ready only later this year.

Back in May 2011, people were even more optimistic:

In early 2012, ahead of the Games, passengers will be able to
use their bank-issued contactless debit and credit cards to pay
for their travel directly on all of London's 8,500 buses. This
alternative method of fare payment will be rolled out to the
rest of the transport network in London later that year.

[As we know, the rollout to just the buses was delayed until Dec 2012,
six months *after* the Olympics.]

We're both guessing as neither of us know what issues, if any, have
turned up in the trial. All I know is that TfL stated that roll out
would be 6 weeks after the trial ends assuming no serious issues were
found in the trial.

And I'm saying that the trial has perhaps not ended, and that we are way
past the two months mentioned above. Especially if they are still
recruiting new people.

Either that, or the attempt to recruit new people is a new layer of
cock-up, and if I replied I'd be told "sorry, we aren't accepting new
people".

You say it is cock up.

Sending me an invitation (for a trial that may in fact be closed).

An alternative view is risk management and avoiding a public relations
disaster.

That's one possibility for the delays to the trialdeployment.

I think that sat behind the Olympics decision - why launch something
new if you are not 110% confident it will work or that would not accept
bank cards held by foreign visitors?

Even when it launched they were saying it wouldn't accept foreign cards.
How did they get themselves into that predicament; wouldn't
acceptability of cards be one of those things you could work out on
paper way ahead of actually deploying hardware around the system?

You just need to talk to the Card Issuer's equivalent of ATOC.

TfL have publicly stated that DfT demands to complete the ITSO work
caused a diversion of project resource away from CBC workstream.

Perhaps that's because in the "bigger picture" a lot of TOCs have egg on
their face having promised acceptability of their ITSO tickets on the
tube ages ago.

We then had the nonsense with both the 2013 and 2014 Fares Revisions
being delayed. TfL have been clear that the latter caused a programme
delay to the CBC workstream and delayed the trial.

Does this mean the delays are all to do with software, not hardware?

What was in the Fares Revision that might have caused algorithms to have
to be reviewed, rather than simply plumbing in a few new numbers for the
actual fares? Was it the withdrawal of Z12 Travelcards, for example.

If there was to be a reasonable criticism then perhaps it is the
handling of public announcements of possible introduction dates.

Agreed 100%, and that's *precisely* where the Vapourware aspect comes
in.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 11:35:03 on
Mon, 19 May 2014, Paul Corfield remarked:
Which brings me back to the original question: why are they asking me
if I want to join the trial, if it's ending?

Tell you what - why not respond to the TfL request and then ask them
why you've got the invite as you understood the trial was well under
way and possibly due to end soon? You could then enlighten us all
with whatever TfL say by way of their reply!

As I don't qualify for the trial, because I'm not a frequent enough
visitor, I'm not sure whether I can apply. I doubt very much they would
answer that question, if posed, either (in particular the invitation
says "Please do not e-mail a response to this message.")

Later... well I thought I'd give it a go. Unfortunately the link they
gave to sign up for the trial leads to a login page for my TfL Oyster
account, and after signing in there's nothing about the contactless
trial there.

Worse than that, the "My Card" tab on that web page:

https://oyster.tfl.gov.uk/oyster/entry.do

sends me to a completely blank screen. How extraordinarily helpful!!
--
Roland Perry

On 19/05/2014 10:39, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 10:17:19 on Mon, 19 May
2014, Mizter T remarked:
All I know is that TfL stated that roll out would be 6 weeks after
the trial ends assuming no serious issues were found in the trial.

Pilot seemingly started on 25 April, so Roland can get excited about
the 6th June.

That'd be six weeks after the trial *started* though.

Yes, of course.

So, 18 July (approx) is the magic date.

Which implies you know that the trial ends the first week of June. Is
that published somewhere?

No, I'm just adding 2 and 2 and getting 5 - or rather, adding 6 and 6 to
get 12, because I've got 6 weeks on the mind (because Paul C mentioned
it above).


I'd imagine TfL are keen to have contactless on all modes up and
running by 6 July, which is when London buses 'go cashless'.

So that would imply a trial ending now. Which brings me back to the
original question: why are they asking me if I want to join the trial,
if it's ending?

At a *complete guess*, I'd imagine those people now using contactless as
part of the pilot won't have to stop using it before it launches for
real. As I said, a complete guess.

I didn't go for the trial because my debit card doesn't have contactless
(yet).

On Tue, 20 May 2014 07:10:35 +0100, Mizter T wrote:
At a *complete guess*, I'd imagine those people now using contactless as
part of the pilot won't have to stop using it before it launches for
real. As I said, a complete guess.

The only bit of the pilot that seems not ready for launch is issuing a
membership card, perhaps because revenue protection staff don't yet
have a new reader? Perhaps that will get resolved and then it will go
live? Has anyone had their Oyster card checked recently by a hand held
reader that is different to the traditional ones?

http://cdn0.mos.techradar.futurecdn....art-580-90.jpg

On 20/05/2014 11:52, David Walters wrote:

On Tue, 20 May 2014 07:10:35 +0100, Mizter T wrote:
At a *complete guess*, I'd imagine those people now using contactless as
part of the pilot won't have to stop using it before it launches for
real. As I said, a complete guess.

The only bit of the pilot that seems not ready for launch is issuing a
membership card, perhaps because revenue protection staff don't yet
have a new reader? Perhaps that will get resolved and then it will go
live? Has anyone had their Oyster card checked recently by a hand held
reader that is different to the traditional ones?

http://cdn0.mos.techradar.futurecdn....art-580-90.jpg


Eh, membership card?

On Tue, 20 May 2014 12:05:04 +0100, Mizter T wrote:

On 20/05/2014 11:52, David Walters wrote:

On Tue, 20 May 2014 07:10:35 +0100, Mizter T wrote:
At a *complete guess*, I'd imagine those people now using contactless as
part of the pilot won't have to stop using it before it launches for
real. As I said, a complete guess.

The only bit of the pilot that seems not ready for launch is issuing a
membership card, perhaps because revenue protection staff don't yet
have a new reader? Perhaps that will get resolved and then it will go
live? Has anyone had their Oyster card checked recently by a hand held
reader that is different to the traditional ones?

http://cdn0.mos.techradar.futurecdn....art-580-90.jpg


Eh, membership card?

http://tfl.gov.uk/contactlesspilot
Latest Pilot Information
Key messages
.. As soon as you receive your membership card you can start to use your
contactless payment card to travel

.. You must carry your membership card with you at all times when you
travel using your contactless payment card

In message , at 07:10:35 on Tue, 20 May
2014, Mizter T remarked:

I'd imagine TfL are keen to have contactless on all modes up and
running by 6 July, which is when London buses 'go cashless'.

So that would imply a trial ending now. Which brings me back to the
original question: why are they asking me if I want to join the trial,
if it's ending?

At a *complete guess*, I'd imagine those people now using contactless
as part of the pilot won't have to stop using it before it launches for
real. As I said, a complete guess.

But why recruit *new* people to a trial that's about to end?

ps There were stern tannoys at Euston tube station today, about avoiding
"card clash", as well as numerous posters. What I'm not sure is what
happens if someone not on the trial tries a contactless card. Perhaps
it's just rejected.

pps Because my Barclays OnePulse has turned to dust, I needed to buy a
brand new Oyster card today, and it was really easy - at one of the
machines at Kings Cross 'classic' ticket hall. And no queues either.

Slight problem: when I touched out at Euston it failed to display the
remaining credit/last-journey charge, although it had done the previous
to times I touched out elsewhere.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 13:42:30 on
Tue, 20 May 2014, David Walters remarked:
http://tfl.gov.uk/contactlesspilot
Latest Pilot Information
Key messages
. As soon as you receive your membership card you can start to use your
contactless payment card to travel

. You must carry your membership card with you at all times when you
travel using your contactless payment card

Oh FFS!!! Even more card-bloat. You couldn't make it up.

And how does that work for the tourist just off the plane from New York,
or the train from Paris or Inverness?
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 13:42:30 on
Tue, 20 May 2014, David Walters remarked:
http://tfl.gov.uk/contactlesspilot
Latest Pilot Information
Key messages
. As soon as you receive your membership card you can start to use your
contactless payment card to travel

. You must carry your membership card with you at all times when you
travel using your contactless payment card

Oh FFS!!! Even more card-bloat. You couldn't make it up.

And how does that work for the tourist just off the plane from New York,
or the train from Paris or Inverness?

i suspect that's just for the trial - while they get the back office to work
correctly

tim

Oh FFS!!! Even more card-bloat. You couldn't make it up.

And how does that work for the tourist just off the plane from New
York, or the train from Paris or Inverness?

ISTM there's clues enough to come up with a hypothesis:

a. it's a "pilot"
b. FAQ in clude "If you no longer have your pilot membership card,
you should not travel using your contactless payment card as you risk
getting a penalty fare and could be prosecuted"
c. upthread "anyone had their Oyster card checked recently by a hand
held reader that is different to the traditional ones"

May not be 3 sigma but WTF - you don't have to play
--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid