On Thursday, 26 June 2014 00:55:51 UTC+1, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 23:00:36 +0100, "

wrote:



What are the plans for expanding contactless into other cities or

further afield on NR?



I think the Rail Delivery Group are considering the technology but

beyond that I don't know. I am not aware that any of the city regions

are considering contactless bank cards - they're all struggling to get

ITSO based schemes into service.




GMPTE is the only other area that I know of that is planning to introduce CPC.

http://www.getmethere.com/about-getm...p#a-card-types

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 23:00:36 +0100, "
wrote:

What are the plans for expanding contactless into other cities or
further afield on NR?

I think the Rail Delivery Group are considering the technology but
beyond that I don't know. I am not aware that any of the city regions
are considering contactless bank cards - they're all struggling to get
ITSO based schemes into service.

The only other scheme was First Group's move into smartcards for its
buses - that scheme was based on bank card acceptance first plus ITSO
for concessionary tickets. However progress has been very slow and I
don't know if they even have a trial area operating.

What is odd is that the technology should be very straightforward
given there are known standards and a competitive supplier base. There
must be horrendous issues with company processes, security and
deployment issues given how incredibly slow the progress is with so
many schemes - even when only in one company. Multi operator schemes
in deregulated areas will always be hard as no one can force the bus
companies to take part and there's always the issue of "who pays?".

Except for ITSO concession cards. Stagecoach have implemented limited
smartcard facilities and handle bus passes automatically, as do Whippet
round here.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , at 05:54:10
on Thu, 26 Jun 2014, remarked:

Stagecoach have implemented limited smartcard facilities and handle bus
passes automatically,

That's the Stagecoach whose ITSO cards for SWT, EMT and Cambridgeshire
buses are in no way interoperable?

as do Whippet round here.

Whippet *and* Whippet, surely.
--
Roland Perry

wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 23:00:36 +0100, "
wrote:

What are the plans for expanding contactless into other cities or
further afield on NR?

I think the Rail Delivery Group are considering the technology but
beyond that I don't know. I am not aware that any of the city regions
are considering contactless bank cards - they're all struggling to get
ITSO based schemes into service.

The only other scheme was First Group's move into smartcards for its
buses - that scheme was based on bank card acceptance first plus ITSO
for concessionary tickets. However progress has been very slow and I
don't know if they even have a trial area operating.

What is odd is that the technology should be very straightforward
given there are known standards and a competitive supplier base. There
must be horrendous issues with company processes, security and
deployment issues given how incredibly slow the progress is with so
many schemes - even when only in one company. Multi operator schemes
in deregulated areas will always be hard as no one can force the bus
companies to take part and there's always the issue of "who pays?".

Except for ITSO concession cards. Stagecoach have implemented limited
smartcard facilities and handle bus passes automatically, as do Whippet
round here.

I though all local buses were supposed to handle oldies bus passes
electronically - it's TfL who are behind the curve on this one.

Certainly all in Kent and Hants do

tim

On 26/06/2014 00:55, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 23:00:36 +0100, "
wrote:

What are the plans for expanding contactless into other cities or
further afield on NR?

I think the Rail Delivery Group are considering the technology but
beyond that I don't know. I am not aware that any of the city regions
are considering contactless bank cards - they're all struggling to get
ITSO based schemes into service.

The only other scheme was First Group's move into smartcards for its
buses - that scheme was based on bank card acceptance first plus ITSO
for concessionary tickets. However progress has been very slow and I
don't know if they even have a trial area operating.

What is odd is that the technology should be very straightforward
given there are known standards and a competitive supplier base. There
must be horrendous issues with company processes, security and
deployment issues given how incredibly slow the progress is with so
many schemes - even when only in one company. Multi operator schemes
in deregulated areas will always be hard as no one can force the bus
companies to take part and there's always the issue of "who pays?".


Isn't that a bit of a waste of time and resources to work on introducing
ITSO, when eventually everybody will go over to contactless?

wrote in message ...
On 26/06/2014 00:55, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 23:00:36 +0100, "
wrote:

What are the plans for expanding contactless into other cities or
further afield on NR?

I think the Rail Delivery Group are considering the technology but
beyond that I don't know. I am not aware that any of the city regions
are considering contactless bank cards - they're all struggling to get
ITSO based schemes into service.

The only other scheme was First Group's move into smartcards for its
buses - that scheme was based on bank card acceptance first plus ITSO
for concessionary tickets. However progress has been very slow and I
don't know if they even have a trial area operating.

What is odd is that the technology should be very straightforward
given there are known standards and a competitive supplier base. There
must be horrendous issues with company processes, security and
deployment issues given how incredibly slow the progress is with so
many schemes - even when only in one company. Multi operator schemes
in deregulated areas will always be hard as no one can force the bus
companies to take part and there's always the issue of "who pays?".


Isn't that a bit of a waste of time and resources to work on introducing
ITSO, when eventually everybody will go over to contactless?

the comment from others suggest that that wont be happening, any time soon

tim

In article , () wrote:

Isn't that a bit of a waste of time and resources to work on
introducing ITSO, when eventually everybody will go over to
contactless?

You might think so but this is a project run by a government committee we're
talking about.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 26/06/2014 22:15, wrote:
On 26/06/2014 00:55, Paul Corfield wrote:
[snip]


Isn't that a bit of a waste of time and resources to work on introducing
ITSO, when eventually everybody will go over to contactless?

Not really - they serve different purposes.
The Contactless Payment Cards (aka cEMV), and the undelying "Transit
Model" that the banks and credit card companies have developed, have
limits on the value of an individual journey, and on the total amount
that can be accumlated before (a) payment is collected, and (b) online
validation (CHip'n'PIN) is required at a reader.
So while cEMV will work well for daily travel around a town or city, it
won't work for inter-urban travel where a ticket might cost £50+.

But then the same applies to any ePurse-based system. With something
like Oyster, a 'max fare' is deducted on entry, and a refund applied
when you tap out on exit. This max fare affects the minimum balance you
need on the card.
Now apply that to travel from Penzance to Wick. Would you want to have
that much credit on your card/account if all YOU wanted to do was
travel around London?

The issue is that there are many different travel patterns, and there
isn't a one size fits all smart ticketing product. We will need
different products on smartcard / mobile phones / whatever to allow
anybody to do whatever journey they wish.

Just my 0.02GBP

Kevin

In message , at 22:15:28 on Thu, 26 Jun
2014, " remarked:
What are the plans for expanding contactless into other cities or
further afield on NR?

I think the Rail Delivery Group are considering the technology but
beyond that I don't know. I am not aware that any of the city regions
are considering contactless bank cards - they're all struggling to get
ITSO based schemes into service.
....
Isn't that a bit of a waste of time and resources to work on
introducing ITSO, when eventually everybody will go over to contactless?

ITSO is much simpler than contactless, especially because it stores
products on the card rather than in a collection of databases.

Therefore a season ticket on ITSO will work the barriers where-ever it's
valid, without the need to be sending data off to the central computers
every time it's touched.

Far better for the customer too if an off-route touch refuses entry,
than produces an unexpected and potentially punitive day-ticket for that
trip, once the sums have been done a day later.
--
Roland Perry

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Jun 2014 22:15:28 +0100, "
wrote:


Their main experience of CBCs will, of course, be when TfL launches
their facility that will cover the zonal area. It will be interesting
to see what happens to the relative balance of ticket products and
sales. The London TOCs that were so resistant to Oyster were
perfectly delighted to see their ridership and revenue soar once it
was extended to their services.

Did that really happen? I find it hard to believe that a near doubling of
fares (introduction of Oyster Zonal pricing has removed the 49% day return
discount, without making the one way journey any cheaper) resulted in
increased ridership

tim