On 25/06/2014 21:33, Tony Dragon wrote:
On 25/06/2014 15:30, Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
In message , Tony Dragon
writes

The Freedom Pass also can clash (error 94 on the reader)

That's (very) rarely a clash but a mis-read when someone waves their
card about and expected the reader to magically read it. Freedom pass
users are one of the worst offenders at this but not unique.

A proper CPC clash is 70 or 71 which is reporting it's detected 2 cards
or a read error.

Those more observant of you may have noticed that recently the UTS gates
have had a software upgrade and many of these codes now report a 'plain
text' translation of the error code on the second text line.

Lets see, Freedom Pass in wallet, Debit Card in wallet, gates don't open.
Remove either, gates open.
So a card clash.

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I wonder if TfL uses different types of readers? I ask, because, before
I joined the Contactless pilot programme, I would carry my Oyster card
along with a Smart Card from another city on the Continent. Some readers
would have a problem with two cards together, while others would not
give a toss.

In message of Wed, 25 Jun 2014
21:33:35 in uk.transport.london, Tony Dragon
writes
On 25/06/2014 15:30, Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
In message , Tony Dragon
writes

The Freedom Pass also can clash (error 94 on the reader)

That's (very) rarely a clash but a mis-read when someone waves their
card about and expected the reader to magically read it. Freedom pass
users are one of the worst offenders at this but not unique.

A proper CPC clash is 70 or 71 which is reporting it's detected 2 cards
or a read error.

Those more observant of you may have noticed that recently the UTS gates
have had a software upgrade and many of these codes now report a 'plain
text' translation of the error code on the second text line.

Lets see, Freedom Pass in wallet, Debit Card in wallet, gates don't open.
Remove either, gates open.
So a card clash.

Possibly!
My experience of error 94 is that it is the result of sliding the card
over the detector, rather than placing it thereon.
http://www.geofftech.co.uk/tube/codes.html shows
94 - Card communications failed - Bad swipe of card/Card not read
I have never seen
70 - Near Field Radio error (Usually, two Oyster Cards presented at the
same time, or other Oyster processing error), or other unspecified
Oyster Card error
71 - Multiple cards (More than one Oyster card detected)

When my Freedom Pass wallet swallowed an Oyster card (both were in the
same pocket), the Oyster card was read on exit at Tufnell Park -
resulting in an unstarted journey.

Have you (Tony Dragon) tried a wallet containing a Freedom Pass and a
debit card and no other card to confirm the behaviour you report.
I suggest you place the wallet and leave it in position for about a
second to eliminate any sliding behaviour. I think gate detectors have a
plate which is sufficiently near horizontal to serve.
Alternatively - double sided tape is wonderful.
My Freedom Pass wallet contains a debit card and about 10 miscellaneous
cards and rarely gives grief - I sometimes grip the top and bottom of
the wallet and proximity detection continues to work through my fingers.

OTOH, sliding cards on readers often causes the following:
[Person ahead slides Oyster and gets 94.]
Your card may work if you place it rather than slide it.
[Does so and passes without acknowledgement.]
You're welcome!

YMMV.
--
Walter Briscoe

On 25/06/2014 23:00, wrote:
What are the plans for expanding contactless into other
cities or further afield on NR?

What plans?

(That's the answer, BTW.)

In message , at 20:30:47 on
Wed, 25 Jun 2014, Scott remarked:
Can Tfl assure me that I get a red light and not credit the wrong card.

If you keep the other card out of the way, I assume this will be the
situation. If you pay using the wrong card, is it the end of the
world?

If you touch in and out with different cards, you will get two
unresolved journeys (unless they a scheme for registering multiple
credit cards to one account and combining all the day's touches - which
I don't think is what they do).
--
Roland Perry

On 26/06/2014 00:55, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 23:00:36 +0100, "
wrote:

What are the plans for expanding contactless into other cities or
further afield on NR?

I think the Rail Delivery Group are considering the technology but
beyond that I don't know. I am not aware that any of the city regions
are considering contactless bank cards - they're all struggling to get
ITSO based schemes into service.

FWIW, Merseyrail now accepts payments for paper tickets by contactless card:

http://www.merseyrail.org/tickets-passes/ticket-information/contactless-payment.aspx

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-24794486

http://www.computerworlduk.com/news/it-business/3512283/merseyrail-completes-deployment-of-contactless-ticket-payment-systems/

http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/merseyrail-introduces-contactless-payment

The latter two articles make it clear that this is contactless payment
being added as an option to ticket offices and to TVMs (initially at the
former, with the latter following later) - so a much more conventional
deployment of the technology compared to London.

(I can see a quite delightful scope for confusion should TVMs and ticket
offices in London start accepting contactless cards as a means of paying
for conventional paper tickets!)

On 26/06/2014 08:00, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 20:30:47 on
Wed, 25 Jun 2014, Scott remarked:
Can Tfl assure me that I get a red light and not credit the wrong card.

If you keep the other card out of the way, I assume this will be the
situation. If you pay using the wrong card, is it the end of the
world?

If you touch in and out with different cards, you will get two
unresolved journeys (unless they a scheme for registering multiple
credit cards to one account and combining all the day's touches - which
I don't think is what they do).

That's definitely not on the agenda - apart from the massively
unnecessary systems complication and equally spectacular user confusion
it'd cause, it would also enable two or more people to travel around
concurrently and have their journeys capped that day as if they were one
person.

Mizter T wrote:
On 26/06/2014 08:00, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 20:30:47 on
Wed, 25 Jun 2014, Scott remarked:
Can Tfl assure me that I get a red light and not credit the wrong card.

If you keep the other card out of the way, I assume this will be the
situation. If you pay using the wrong card, is it the end of the
world?

If you touch in and out with different cards, you will get two
unresolved journeys (unless they a scheme for registering multiple
credit cards to one account and combining all the day's touches - which
I don't think is what they do).

That's definitely not on the agenda - apart from the massively
unnecessary systems complication and equally spectacular user confusion
it'd cause, it would also enable two or more people to travel around
concurrently and have their journeys capped that day as if they were one person.

Yes, that's a very good point.

In message , at 08:17:03 on Thu, 26 Jun
2014, Mizter T remarked:
Can Tfl assure me that I get a red light and not credit the wrong card.

If you keep the other card out of the way, I assume this will be the
situation. If you pay using the wrong card, is it the end of the
world?

If you touch in and out with different cards, you will get two
unresolved journeys (unless they a scheme for registering multiple
credit cards to one account and combining all the day's touches - which
I don't think is what they do).

That's definitely not on the agenda - apart from the massively
unnecessary systems complication

It's be very simple, just one additional look-up to be done when the
back-office system post-processes the day's transactions.

and equally spectacular user confusion it'd cause,

I don't think we've the heard the end of this double-unresolved-journey
thing. It's a PR accident just waiting to happen.

it would also enable two or more people to travel around concurrently
and have their journeys capped that day as if they were one person.

That is a more significant issue, but it does illustrate that if you are
prepared to loan your card to someone, then the day's cap is already
transferable between two or more people. I wonder if we will see people
getting pre-paid credit cards with small balances on them, and sharing
them as travel tickets between a group of friends (eg flatmates).

Hmm, now that's got me thinking. How do you "load" a young person's
railcard onto a contactless credit card, or will this be done by having
your online account marked as being associated with a railcard that's
been presented to the system somehow, somewhere.
--
Roland Perry

On Thu, 26 Jun 2014 00:51:13 +0100, Mizter T
wrote:
What plans?
(That's the answer, BTW.)

Stagecoach Lancaster have been trialling it, though I don't know to
what extent.

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.

On Thu, 26 Jun 2014 00:55:51 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:
many schemes - even when only in one company. Multi operator
schemes
in deregulated areas will always be hard as no one can force the bus
companies to take part and there's always the issue of "who pays?".

Even a single operator scheme is a good start - simply accepting
payment for paper tickets by card. Far more convenient than cash. I
think this is what Stagecoach were doing.

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.