In message , at
18:14:01 on Sat, 19 Jul 2014, Peter Able
remarked:
Until the January 2014 change, the first departure on which a cheap
fare was available was the 0959, the preceding 0929 departure leaving
ONE MINUTE too early to be charged at cheap rate.

Such things happen all over the network.

I'm pretty sure I used to have to miss a 09.29 from Surbiton to Waterloo
in order to get an off-peak fare.
--
Roland Perry

On 19/07/2014 18:33, Peter Able wrote:

On 19/07/2014 18:26, Mizter T wrote:

[...]
Hopefully not. It has taken quite a write-in campaign to get TfL
to move what was the 0929 departure to 0934.

Is that for people travelling on paper tickets (where perhaps the
rule is still 0930?)

No, for everybody. Until the January 2014 change, the first departure
on which a cheap fare was available was the 0959, the preceding 0929
departure leaving ONE MINUTE too early to be charged at cheap rate.

Though the easement that allows Oyster PAYG users to benefit from being
eligible for the off-peak daily cap for journeys starting after 09:10
has existed for several years (2010 perhaps).

Oh, indeed, but I think that it has been of net benefit to the
passengers to have the only relvant departure pushed back from 0929 to
0934. Perhaps the present 0910 could be pushed back the same amount to
make the 2010 concession meaningful again - but that's someone else's
write-in campaign ;-}}

Agreed. I see the off-peak cap for zones 1-9 is £11.60, whilst an
off-peak z1-9 journey is £3.90 (compared to a peak fare of £6.70). So
the off-peak cap easement is no use to someone intending to make a
straightforward return to z1, with their return journey commencing
before 4pm (or after 7pm).

I wonder if it's technically possible for Oyster to be set to charge
off-peak single fares from say Chesham after 09:10, perhaps not.

Off-peak single fares are charged for single journeys against the flow
on the LO Watford Jn to Euston line - i.e. one is charged an off-peak
single fare for Euston to Watford Jn in the morning peak, and vice-versa
in the evening peak.

However I'm guessing that's where the granularity ends - so a similar
arrangement Chesham the choice would involve making all morning journeys
charged at the off-peak rate, not something LU is going to do!

On 19/07/2014 18:40, Peter Able wrote:
[...]
Many thanks, Paul. Just another example of Scrambled Oyster, then.

It's a legacy thing, harking back to when there was a train leaving
Chesham at some point between 09:10 and 09:30.

The timetable may change in the future.

I hope not. The immediately previous departure pattern - 0929 and 0959
was REALLY annoying.

Understood!


Mind you, with the crazy regulation of late one regularly gets the fare
back. ;-}}

It's that bad, eh?

On 19/07/2014 18:50, Mizter T wrote:

On 19/07/2014 18:33, Peter Able wrote:

On 19/07/2014 18:26, Mizter T wrote:

[...]
Hopefully not. It has taken quite a write-in campaign to get TfL
to move what was the 0929 departure to 0934.

Is that for people travelling on paper tickets (where perhaps the
rule is still 0930?)

No, for everybody. Until the January 2014 change, the first departure
on which a cheap fare was available was the 0959, the preceding 0929
departure leaving ONE MINUTE too early to be charged at cheap rate.

Though the easement that allows Oyster PAYG users to benefit from being
eligible for the off-peak daily cap for journeys starting after 09:10
has existed for several years (2010 perhaps).

Oh, indeed, but I think that it has been of net benefit to the
passengers to have the only relvant departure pushed back from 0929 to
0934. Perhaps the present 0910 could be pushed back the same amount to
make the 2010 concession meaningful again - but that's someone else's
write-in campaign ;-}}

Agreed. I see the off-peak cap for zones 1-9 is £11.60, whilst an
off-peak z1-9 journey is £3.90 (compared to a peak fare of £6.70). So
the off-peak cap easement is no use to someone intending to make a
straightforward return to z1, with their return journey commencing
before 4pm (or after 7pm).

Which describes us to a tee.

I wonder if it's technically possible for Oyster to be set to charge
off-peak single fares from say Chesham after 09:10, perhaps not.

Off-peak single fares are charged for single journeys against the flow
on the LO Watford Jn to Euston line - i.e. one is charged an off-peak
single fare for Euston to Watford Jn in the morning peak, and vice-versa
in the evening peak.

However I'm guessing that's where the granularity ends - so a similar
arrangement Chesham the choice would involve making all morning journeys
charged at the off-peak rate, not something LU is going to do!

I imagine that the Chesham branch is something TfL would love to get rid
of. So we natives had better keep our heads down

On 19/07/2014 18:39, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
18:02:26 on Sat, 19 Jul 2014, Peter Able remarked:
What is it about Chesham, and/or the unofficial site, which makes the
author think TfL won't honour their commitment after 9.10?

What commitment?

The off-peak capping.

But without any trains between 0910 and 0934, the commitment is
worthless, Roland.

PA

On 19/07/2014 18:56, Peter Able wrote:

On 19/07/2014 18:50, Mizter T wrote:
[...]
Though the easement that allows Oyster PAYG users to benefit from being
eligible for the off-peak daily cap for journeys starting after 09:10
has existed for several years (2010 perhaps).

Oh, indeed, but I think that it has been of net benefit to the
passengers to have the only relvant departure pushed back from 0929 to
0934. Perhaps the present 0910 could be pushed back the same amount to
make the 2010 concession meaningful again - but that's someone else's
write-in campaign ;-}}

Agreed. I see the off-peak cap for zones 1-9 is £11.60, whilst an
off-peak z1-9 journey is £3.90 (compared to a peak fare of £6.70). So
the off-peak cap easement is no use to someone intending to make a
straightforward return to z1, with their return journey commencing
before 4pm (or after 7pm).

Which describes us to a tee.

Indeed.


I wonder if it's technically possible for Oyster to be set to charge
off-peak single fares from say Chesham after 09:10, perhaps not.

Off-peak single fares are charged for single journeys against the flow
on the LO Watford Jn to Euston line - i.e. one is charged an off-peak
single fare for Euston to Watford Jn in the morning peak, and vice-versa
in the evening peak.

However I'm guessing that's where the granularity ends - so a similar
arrangement Chesham the choice would involve making all morning journeys
charged at the off-peak rate, not something LU is going to do!

I imagine that the Chesham branch is something TfL would love to get rid
of. So we natives had better keep our heads down.

I'd think that its continuing existence is implicit in the grant to TfL
from central government! (So long as it gets patronised sufficiently,
which AIUI it does.)

On 19/07/2014 18:46, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at
18:14:01 on Sat, 19 Jul 2014, Peter Able remarked:
Until the January 2014 change, the first departure on which a cheap
fare was available was the 0959, the preceding 0929 departure leaving
ONE MINUTE too early to be charged at cheap rate.

Such things happen all over the network.

I'm pretty sure I used to have to miss a 09.29 from Surbiton to Waterloo
in order to get an off-peak fare.

Nowadays there is an unadvertised but understandable leeway built into
the Oyster system of *I think* 2 minutes, so a touch-in at 09:28 counts
as off-peak not peak - meaning the 09:29 could be caught for an off-peak
fare!

(I've tested this a little, but not very scientifically.)

In message , at
18:57:13 on Sat, 19 Jul 2014, Peter Able
remarked:
What is it about Chesham, and/or the unofficial site, which makes the
author think TfL won't honour their commitment after 9.10?

What commitment?

The off-peak capping.

But without any trains between 0910 and 0934, the commitment is
worthless, Roland.

It's not worthless, it allows you to benefit from the lower cap despite
entering the platform before 0930.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 19:12:00 on Sat, 19 Jul
2014, Mizter T remarked:
I'm pretty sure I used to have to miss a 09.29 from Surbiton to Waterloo
in order to get an off-peak fare.

Nowadays there is an unadvertised but understandable leeway built into
the Oyster system of *I think* 2 minutes, so a touch-in at 09:28 counts
as off-peak not peak - meaning the 09:29 could be caught for an
off-peak fare!

(I've tested this a little, but not very scientifically.)

When I was travelling from Surbiton, not only did the ticket office
originally refuse to sell until 0930, but when they relented after the
introduction of barriers, the gates wouldn't let you through.
--
Roland Perry

On 19/07/2014 19:08, Mizter T wrote:

On 19/07/2014 18:56, Peter Able wrote:

On 19/07/2014 18:50, Mizter T wrote:
[...]
Though the easement that allows Oyster PAYG users to benefit from
being
eligible for the off-peak daily cap for journeys starting after 09:10
has existed for several years (2010 perhaps).

Oh, indeed, but I think that it has been of net benefit to the
passengers to have the only relvant departure pushed back from 0929 to
0934. Perhaps the present 0910 could be pushed back the same amount to
make the 2010 concession meaningful again - but that's someone else's
write-in campaign ;-}}

Agreed. I see the off-peak cap for zones 1-9 is £11.60, whilst an
off-peak z1-9 journey is £3.90 (compared to a peak fare of £6.70). So
the off-peak cap easement is no use to someone intending to make a
straightforward return to z1, with their return journey commencing
before 4pm (or after 7pm).

Which describes us to a tee.

Indeed.


I wonder if it's technically possible for Oyster to be set to charge
off-peak single fares from say Chesham after 09:10, perhaps not.

Off-peak single fares are charged for single journeys against the flow
on the LO Watford Jn to Euston line - i.e. one is charged an off-peak
single fare for Euston to Watford Jn in the morning peak, and vice-versa
in the evening peak.

However I'm guessing that's where the granularity ends - so a similar
arrangement Chesham the choice would involve making all morning journeys
charged at the off-peak rate, not something LU is going to do!

I imagine that the Chesham branch is something TfL would love to get rid
of. So we natives had better keep our heads down.

I'd think that its continuing existence is implicit in the grant to TfL
from central government! (So long as it gets patronised sufficiently,
which AIUI it does.)

Chesham has been our home station for 22 years. In that time I'd say
that the traffic has decreased quite a bit. When one of the many
bridges on what is a long stretch of track (from Chalfont & Latimer)
needs replacing - well - it was that that almost saw it off before,
until that knight in shining armour, Ken Livingstone, leapt to its
defence. Of late a mass of money has been spent, apparently easing the
profile of some of the cutting walls along the branch. Surely, sooner
or later though, someone will say enough is enough.

I notice that TfL's journey planner often advises a bus from Chesham to
Amersham, then a train - maybe a straw in the wind?

How incredible that it was once seen as part of Crossrail.

PA