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#1
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For me, one of the most useful things I was expecting Oyster to offer was
the immediate purchase from home of a one day travelcard. It seems that the system can't offer either of those aspects. You can't immediately purchase anything from the website - it takes slightly less time than a paper cheque would to clear before you get the goods. Secondly: You can't actually buy one day travelcards! Why can't the system let me use one day travelcards? These are pretty much the only form of ticket I ever use. It could be quite easy. It could simply modify the pre-pay paradigm to assess whether your day's worth of pre-pay fits within or exceeds the cost of a one-day travelcard (off peak or peak, depending on time of first use) and convert the day's usage to a travelcard and thus plateau out at the point of charging for the maximum of the relevant travelcard used for journeys actually taken. As it is, helped by the insane methodology of bus charging, whereby if I wanted to go from a to b, involving 20 changes of bus, I'd be up for 20 bus fares (unlike the tube, which simply charges a fixed extortionate amount for getting from expensive place a to equally expensive place b). With pre-pay, it would be far too easy to rack up a day's worth of travelling that far exceeds the equivalent cost of a Caxton-press printed papyrus off-peak one day travelcard ticket of olde. -- Ian Tindale |
#2
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Ian Tindale wrote:
For me, one of the most useful things I was expecting Oyster to offer was the immediate purchase from home of a one day travelcard. It seems that the system can't offer either of those aspects. You can't immediately purchase anything from the website - it takes slightly less time than a paper cheque would to clear before you get the goods. Secondly: You can't actually buy one day travelcards! Why can't the system let me use one day travelcards? These are pretty much the only form of ticket I ever use. It could be quite easy. It could simply modify the pre-pay paradigm to assess whether your day's worth of pre-pay fits within or exceeds the cost of a one-day travelcard (off peak or peak, depending on time of first use) and convert the day's usage to a travelcard and thus plateau out at the point of charging for the maximum of the relevant travelcard used for journeys actually taken. As it is, helped by the insane methodology of bus charging, whereby if I wanted to go from a to b, involving 20 changes of bus, I'd be up for 20 bus fares (unlike the tube, which simply charges a fixed extortionate amount for getting from expensive place a to equally expensive place b). With pre-pay, it would be far too easy to rack up a day's worth of travelling that far exceeds the equivalent cost of a Caxton-press printed papyrus off-peak one day travelcard ticket of olde. You need to do a Google search on this newsgroup before ranting - try Oyster and "Day Travelcard", or better yet, "price capping". Price capping does exactly what you asked and should be coming online sometime next month. |
#3
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Dave Arquati wrote:
You need to do a Google search on this newsgroup before ranting - try Oyster and "Day Travelcard", or better yet, "price capping". Price capping does exactly what you asked and should be coming online sometime next month. I did do a google search. Then I ranted. In that order. I searched for the quoted title of this post and found nothing (although you'd find this thread now). Should've broken it down into components I suppose. The term "price capping" is not something I would've searched for, as it's not a phrase I would have used in association with this topic - this is the first time I've heard it used. Sounds hopeful though. Onward March. I wonder what the rules will say about passing one day travelcards among people in the same sense that you can pass a pre-pay oyster between people legitimately now. In other words, if ten of you turn up at the ticket gates and decide, now, that you'll all use the one pre-pay oyster card in someones possession, that's perfectly legit, and the gate staff must surely smile on that. If however, the one day travelcard (or hatting, or whatever you called it, no, it wasn't so posh - capping, yes, that's it) mechanism were in place, after a few people had entered, you're all now effectively sharing a one day travelcard for the rest of the day. Or is there some restriction on multiple entries that might have to swing into place when this bonneting scheme occurs? -- Ian Tindale |
#4
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Ian Tindale wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote: You need to do a Google search on this newsgroup before ranting - try Oyster and "Day Travelcard", or better yet, "price capping". Price capping does exactly what you asked and should be coming online sometime next month. I did do a google search. Then I ranted. In that order. I searched for the quoted title of this post and found nothing (although you'd find this thread now). Should've broken it down into components I suppose. The term "price capping" is not something I would've searched for, as it's not a phrase I would have used in association with this topic - this is the first time I've heard it used. Sounds hopeful though. Onward March. My apologies then. I'm surprised searching for Oyster in combination with travelcards doesn't work well though; there have been an awful lot of thread on it in the last two months! I wonder what the rules will say about passing one day travelcards among people in the same sense that you can pass a pre-pay oyster between people legitimately now. In other words, if ten of you turn up at the ticket gates and decide, now, that you'll all use the one pre-pay oyster card in someones possession, that's perfectly legit, and the gate staff must surely smile on that. I don't think you can go through the gate and pass your Oyster back to other people to use it - the card expects an exit after an entry. You can't do that with one-day travelcards either - there's some time delay before being able to pass it through a gate again. However, like a travelcard, you can give it to someone else *after* your journey has finished. If however, the one day travelcard (or hatting, or whatever you called it, no, it wasn't so posh - capping, yes, that's it) mechanism were in place, after a few people had entered, you're all now effectively sharing a one day travelcard for the rest of the day. Or is there some restriction on multiple entries that might have to swing into place when this bonneting scheme occurs? See above. Like I said, there's essentially already a restriction on multiple entries, and I that remains for Oyster - not specifically, but just due to the way the system works. |
#5
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In message , Dave Arquati
writes I don't think you can go through the gate and pass your Oyster back to other people to use it - the card expects an exit after an entry. You can't do that with one-day travelcards either - there's some time delay before being able to pass it through a gate again. However, like a travelcard, you can give it to someone else *after* your journey has finished. I believe that is true if you have Pre-Pay (only) on the Oyster but not if the Oyster also has a season ticket on it. I don't think you can give a travelcard to someone else to use. According to the TfL "Conditions of Carriage" ... 6.3 Use of tickets. Our tickets can only be used by the person they were bought for. They must not be resold or given away for further use. Doing this automatically cancels them and is an offence under our Byelaws and the Public Service Vehicle (Conduct of Drivers, Inspectors, Conductors and Passengers) Regulations 1990. This rule does not apply to Carnet or bus ‘Saver’ tickets. -- Paul Terry |
#6
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On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 10:58:38 +0000, Ian Tindale wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote: You need to do a Google search on this newsgroup before ranting - try Oyster and "Day Travelcard", or better yet, "price capping". Price capping does exactly what you asked and should be coming online sometime next month. I did do a google search. Then I ranted. In that order. I searched for the quoted title of this post and found nothing (although you'd find this thread now). Should've broken it down into components I suppose. The term "price capping" is not something I would've searched for, as it's not a phrase I would have used in association with this topic - this is the first time I've heard it used. Sounds hopeful though. Onward March. But capping will work against the LT Card price and not One Day Travelcards. It cannot work to ODTC prices and validity because there would have to be validators / gates at every National Rail station in the zonal area. These don't exist so therefore if you lived in an area exclusively served by NR trains you would have no way in which to register your trips and therefore contribute to your daily total of rides that would be capped at the One Day Travelcard price. It took me a long time to "click" that the LT Card price would be trigger for the daily cap and not the One Day Travelcard. I wonder what the rules will say about passing one day travelcards among people in the same sense that you can pass a pre-pay oyster between people legitimately now. In other words, if ten of you turn up at the ticket gates and decide, now, that you'll all use the one pre-pay oyster card in someones possession, that's perfectly legit, and the gate staff must surely smile on that. But you misunderstand the transferability rules for pre-pay. You cannot have two people travelling on one card at the same time. You can give the card to someone for them to make trips but the payment deducted from the card applies to their travel only. If you wished to travel with them then you would either (a) need your own pre-pay card or (b) buy a normal ticket from a machine using the pre-pay value as a means of payment or (c) buy a ticket with cash. If however, the one day travelcard (or hatting, or whatever you called it, no, it wasn't so posh - capping, yes, that's it) mechanism were in place, after a few people had entered, you're all now effectively sharing a one day travelcard for the rest of the day. Or is there some restriction on multiple entries that might have to swing into place when this bonneting scheme occurs? You cannot transfer a One Day Travelcard between users. Neither can you transfer an Oyster card that has both Travelcard and Pre-Pay validity on it. Therefore your example is not permitted - each traveller would have to have an individual card. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
#7
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Paul Corfield wrote:
But capping will work against the LT Card price and not One Day Travelcards. It cannot work to ODTC prices and validity because there would have to be validators / gates at every National Rail station in the zonal area. These don't exist so therefore if you lived in an area exclusively served by NR trains you would have no way in which to register your trips and therefore contribute to your daily total of rides that would be capped at the One Day Travelcard price. It took me a long time to "click" that the LT Card price would be trigger for the daily cap and not the One Day Travelcard. But you can't use Pre-pay on the majority of rail journeys within London anyway (just 10 or so specific ones like Marylebone up to Amersham). It's currently only offically valid on tube and DLR. It also looks like it's starting to work on buses as well. Does anyone know if there are plans to roll out the validators to all the national rail stations across London? As I live in the South East, I'm kinda not getting the best use out of my pre-pay. And, incidentally, although I don't think it's listed as one of the rail routes you can use pre-pay on, does anyone know if it's valid from Charing Cross to those stations which do have gates (but not inbetween). i.e. London Bridge, New Cross/New Cross Gate, Woolwich Arsenal, East Croydon?. |
#8
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If I understand you right. When capping comes in it will work on the price
stucture for peak time travelcards and LT cards not off peak travelcards. If this is correct most customers will still be better off with a paper tickets. When do you think capping will work at OPTC prices |
#9
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On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 15:47:01 -0000, "Anon"
wrote: If I understand you right. When capping comes in it will work on the price stucture for peak time travelcards and LT cards not off peak travelcards. If this is correct most customers will still be better off with a paper tickets. When do you think capping will work at OPTC prices Presumably when/if all the TOCs that participate in the Travelcard scheme have validators/gatelines installed at all their stations. Which will most likely be...erm...never, given the number of unstaffed stations and stations only staffed part-time in the London area, which surely defeats the point of Penalty Fares... Cya, Barry -- Barry Salter, barry at southie dot me dot uk Read uk.* newsgroups? Read uk.net.news.announce! DISCLAIMER: The above comments do not necessarily represent the views of my employers. |
#10
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On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 15:47:01 -0000, "Anon"
wrote: If I understand you right. When capping comes in it will work on the price stucture for peak time travelcards and LT cards not off peak travelcards. It will not work for peak time travelcards either - to cap at Travelcard prices you have to be able to record all forms of Travelcard valid travel. Hence you are back to the issue about almost all NR journeys not being recorded and not being valid for Pre-Pay travel. The ticket that aligns to the planned Pre Pay validity is the LT Card. If this is correct most customers will still be better off with a paper tickets. Yes I think that is my conclusion too. When do you think capping will work at OPTC prices I have no idea on the timing. As I have said before it is clear that the TfL business plan has as an option an extension of pre-pay facilities and validity to the whole London rail network. That is not without some interesting practical problems to solve but if it was to happen then capping at ODTC prices would become feasible. In the meantime the policy appears to be to negotiate with individual TOCs and extend pre-pay validity where possible line by line. Therefore the LT / NR interavailability rules expand at the same time. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
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