In message , at
10:21:57 on Wed, 17 Sep 2014, Matthew Dickinson
remarked:
There are two different types of contactless cards around:

i) just emulates the magnetic strip

ii) is connected to the EMV chip.

It's the first (mostly USA issued) which won't be accepted.

That's interesting, so even the ))) contactless symbol has nuances?

To do with technology rather than what sort of credit rating you have.
--
Roland Perry

On 17/09/2014 16:36, Roland Perry wrote:

If I can by a coffee at Starbucks by waving a CPC, and it ends up on my
bill at the end of the month, it does seem as if waving a CPC at a gate
ought to register my presence with enough information to bill me
overnight once I've also registered a touch-out. But clearly it's all a
lot more complicated than that, given the kerfuffle to get it all in place.

Because Starbucks knows how much to charge you before you wave your
card, but TfL doesn't know whether you will make more journeys today.
Readers in shops can occasionally ask you for a PIN, but ticket gates
can't do that. This means new rules were needed, as well as new software.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

Now that CPC is fully rolled out, I expect we'll see more information
about both TfL's position on this issue and also war stories from
disappointed would-be travellers.

One question that occurs to me is whether railcard discounts will be
available with contactless cards if so, how?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , at 17:55:13 on Wed, 17 Sep
2014, Mizter T remarked:

This vapourware concept you're so very keen on and contactless in
London - how do you describe it - the gases have now solidified?

It's a product that long conformed to the definition:

"Has been advertised but is not yet available to buy, either because it
is only a concept or because it is still being written or designed."

I'd add the rider that such a thing is especially vapourous if it fails
to meet several announced release dates.

It's taken almost two years to move it on from buses to the rest of the
TfL estate, for example.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 13:32:34
on Wed, 17 Sep 2014, remarked:
Now that CPC is fully rolled out, I expect we'll see more information
about both TfL's position on this issue and also war stories from
disappointed would-be travellers.

One question that occurs to me is whether railcard discounts will be
available with contactless cards if so, how?

Currently a bald "no". From the TfL FAQ:

"If you're eligible for discounted travel, you should carry on using
your existing Oyster card or Oyster photocard.

Discounts can't be added to contactless payment cards. This includes
all National Railcard discounts."
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 18:00:44 on Wed, 17
Sep 2014, Michael R N Dolbear remarked:
No doubt the trade press is queuing up to print 'vapourware' stories
from other operators. After all, they've been doing it for TfL for the
last three years.

VISA say:

"Transport authorities across the world are investing in
contactless payment technology to drive down the cost of
ticketing, reduce queues and increase efficiency."
and
"Many transit agencies across Europe are now seeking to build
Visa contactless acceptance into their future ticketing
strategies due to the uniquely compelling nature of the
propositions they represent."

But don't actually mention any examples of who, other than a couple of
uncaptioned photos from TfL.

The first is observable, at least when the technology goes live or even
when the contact is signed.

But they still don't have any examples.

The second is just an aspiration and not observable until something
actually happens.

Such as any(?) other transport operator itself announcing that it's
dipping its toe into this particular bit of vapourware[tm].
--
Roland Perry

In message , at
19:32:32 on Wed, 17 Sep 2014, Arthur Figgis
remarked:
If I can by a coffee at Starbucks by waving a CPC, and it ends up on my
bill at the end of the month, it does seem as if waving a CPC at a gate
ought to register my presence with enough information to bill me
overnight once I've also registered a touch-out. But clearly it's all a
lot more complicated than that, given the kerfuffle to get it all in place.

Because Starbucks knows how much to charge you before you wave your
card, but TfL doesn't know whether you will make more journeys today.

You've missed the point. The TfL gates "know" to charge you £0, and send
that message along with your location back to HQ. At the end of the day
someone looks at all the £0 charges and works out where you've been and
what non-zero charge to apply to the cardholder.

Readers in shops can occasionally ask you for a PIN, but ticket gates
can't do that. This means new rules were needed,

That's a completely different bit of governance work which the card
companies claim was done years ago (at least two years for acceptance on
buses, obviously).

as well as new software.

Not really, the terminals just have to desist from asking for a PIN if
they don't have a keyboard. That was sorted for acceptance on buses in
2012.
--
Roland Perry

On Wednesday, 17 September 2014 19:25:46 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at

10:21:57 on Wed, 17 Sep 2014, Matthew Dickinson

remarked:

There are two different types of contactless cards around:



i) just emulates the magnetic strip



ii) is connected to the EMV chip.



It's the first (mostly USA issued) which won't be accepted.



That's interesting, so even the ))) contactless symbol has nuances?



To do with technology rather than what sort of credit rating you have.

--

Roland Perry

https://technologypartner.visa.com/Download.aspx?id=32

from page 73 onwards...

On Wednesday, 17 September 2014 19:50:09 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 18:00:44 on Wed, 17

Sep 2014, Michael R N Dolbear remarked:

No doubt the trade press is queuing up to print 'vapourware' stories

from other operators. After all, they've been doing it for TfL for the

last three years.



VISA say:



"Transport authorities across the world are investing in

contactless payment technology to drive down the cost of

ticketing, reduce queues and increase efficiency."

and

"Many transit agencies across Europe are now seeking to build

Visa contactless acceptance into their future ticketing

strategies due to the uniquely compelling nature of the

propositions they represent."



But don't actually mention any examples of who, other than a couple of

uncaptioned photos from TfL.



The first is observable, at least when the technology goes live or even

when the contact is signed.



But they still don't have any examples.



The second is just an aspiration and not observable until something

actually happens.



Such as any(?) other transport operator itself announcing that it's

dipping its toe into this particular bit of vapourware[tm].

--

Roland Perry

TfGM have announced plans for Manchester.

https://www.getmethere.com/web/tfgm_...e#a-card-types

I wonder if Virgin will have problems with Euston - Manchester Piccadilly travellers thinking they can use contactless for the whole journey..?

On 17/09/2014 19:45, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 17:55:13 on Wed, 17 Sep
2014, Mizter T remarked:

This vapourware concept you're so very keen on and contactless in
London - how do you describe it - the gases have now solidified?

It's a product that long conformed to the definition:

"Has been advertised but is not yet available to buy, either because it
is only a concept or because it is still being written or designed."

I'd add the rider that such a thing is especially vapourous if it fails
to meet several announced release dates.

It's taken almost two years to move it on from buses to the rest of the
TfL estate, for example.

It's here and is working right now. That doesn't seem very vapourous to me.

It wasn't heavily advertised to the public at large for years either.
Yes, there were vague, broad time scales on the relevant project page of
the TfL website that slipped, but (apart from people who take joy in
pointing out how rubbish everything is) people weren't waiting on baited
breath for it to appear.

TfL met their announced, specific , solid 'go-live' date of 16 September.

Delayed (but working), not vapour.