On 17/09/2014 21:58, wrote:
In article , (Mizter T) wrote:

On 17/09/2014 21:35, wrote:

I don't get this. A contactless card will be linked to an account in the
TfL back office. So if a cardholder shows contactless card and railcard
to staff member why shouldn't they record the discount on the account
just as they do now sort of?

Two answers...

(1) It gives you something to remain annoyed about.

Not that silly! Not handling railcards limits the ability of contactless to
replace Oyster.

Not if you just get rid of the plethora of various railcard discounts
and charge everyone a flat fee for travel.

But then what would we have pointless discussions about in this
newsgroup? Cambridge probably...

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 17:39:15 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
One possibility is that while they won't be able to get a balance from
the bank in the milliseconds it takes to touch in, maybe by at least
overnight they'll know to blacklist such a card's future use.

I don't know how contactless works at the backend but I very much doubt
if they obtain a banks yes/no on each touch. There simply wouldn't be time
unless they're happy for each user to wait a few seconds for confirmation
which in a busy rush hour station I doubt is a good idea.

I asked the question because I opened a new account recently and received
a contactless card even before I'd made a deposit and I had no overdraft
agreement so in theory I could happily spend my virtual 20 quid and I can't
see how the vendor would recover the money since the banks computer would just
tell them to **** off when reconciliation is done.

--
Spud

On 2014-09-18 09:25:00 +0000, d said:

]I asked the question because I opened a new account recently and received
a contactless card even before I'd made a deposit and I had no overdraft
agreement so in theory I could happily spend my virtual 20 quid and I can't
see how the vendor would recover the money since the banks computer would just
tell them to **** off when reconciliation is done.

Or it would perhaps more likely take you 20 quid into an unauthorised
overdraft.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

On Thu, 18 Sep 2014 10:25:49 +0100
Neil Williams wrote:
On 2014-09-18 09:25:00 +0000, d said:

]I asked the question because I opened a new account recently and received
a contactless card even before I'd made a deposit and I had no overdraft
agreement so in theory I could happily spend my virtual 20 quid and I can't
see how the vendor would recover the money since the banks computer would
just
tell them to **** off when reconciliation is done.

Or it would perhaps more likely take you 20 quid into an unauthorised
overdraft.

Some accounts simply don't allow an overdraft - or to go beyond an agreed
limit, full stop. Perhaps the bank just forwards your details and the vendor
has to recover the money some other way though whether it would be worth the
effort for a few quid is another matter.

--
Spud

In message , at 10:17:32 on Thu, 18 Sep
2014, Someone Somewhere remarked:

Not handling railcards limits the ability of contactless to
replace Oyster.

Not if you just get rid of the plethora of various railcard discounts
and charge everyone a flat fee for travel.

We've got quite a conservative (actually, it's right-wing too) set of
discounts for public transport in this country. Go to a properly
socialist country and you might find that military veterans' second
cousins[1] will be just one of several dozen classes of people with
cheaper travel.

[1] OK, so I exaggerate slightly.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 09:25:00 on Thu, 18
Sep 2014, d remarked:
On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 17:39:15 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
One possibility is that while they won't be able to get a balance from
the bank in the milliseconds it takes to touch in, maybe by at least
overnight they'll know to blacklist such a card's future use.

I don't know how contactless works at the backend but I very much doubt
if they obtain a banks yes/no on each touch. There simply wouldn't be time
unless they're happy for each user to wait a few seconds for confirmation
which in a busy rush hour station I doubt is a good idea.

The 250+ page document posted yesterday probably has the answer.

My own gut feel is that within the scope of the "every maybe 1:10
requiring a PIN, and a floor limit of around $25" that the various
parties take a commercial risk.

I asked the question because I opened a new account recently and received
a contactless card even before I'd made a deposit and I had no overdraft
agreement so in theory I could happily spend my virtual 20 quid and I can't
see how the vendor would recover the money since the banks computer would just
tell them to **** off when reconciliation is done.

The bank can still pursue you for the unauthorised overdraft.
--
Roland Perry

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On 2014-09-18 07:45:23 +0000, Roland Perry said:

Discounts don't apply across the board (for example a 'student'
card doesn't give a discount on tube fares). However both
contactless and Oyster are usable on National Rail lines within the
TfL area, so why shouldn't people be able to get a discount if they
have an appropriate railcard?

I'm not saying they shouldn't - I'm just saying that everywhere else
I've looked at such things Railcards are a long-distance product only
and don't apply to local journeys within a joint-tariff area.

Where? Paper tickets in the same area always got railcard discounts. In some
cases they can still only be obtained with paper tickets, e.g. Day
Travelcards with Network Card discounts.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , d
() wrote:

Some accounts simply don't allow an overdraft - or to go beyond an agreed
limit, full stop. Perhaps the bank just forwards your details and the
vendor has to recover the money some other way though whether it would be
worth the effort for a few quid is another matter.

Sounds like a good definition for an unauthorised overdraft to me!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 18/09/2014 07:44, Roland Perry wrote:
[...]
It is indeed "apparently simple" About two lines of code could apply
such a discount to a suitably registered contactless account.

You'd need a solid system in place to verify that the payment card
holder really did hold a Railcard.

Then you'd need a solid system in place for RPIs and the like to be
informed that they should also checking for a valid Railcard.

Bit more than two lines of code there.

Actually, all that stuff is already needed for Oyster loaded with a
Railcard.

One significant difference is that the Railcard discount flag is
actually stored on the Oyster card - that's not possible with CPCs (just
possibly might be with a future generation of them).

RPIs do ask to see associated Railcards.

In message , at 12:24:26 on Thu, 18 Sep
2014, Mizter T remarked:
It is indeed "apparently simple" About two lines of code could apply
such a discount to a suitably registered contactless account.

You'd need a solid system in place to verify that the payment card
holder really did hold a Railcard.

Then you'd need a solid system in place for RPIs and the like to be
informed that they should also checking for a valid Railcard.

Bit more than two lines of code there.

Actually, all that stuff is already needed for Oyster loaded with a
Railcard.

One significant difference is that the Railcard discount flag is
actually stored on the Oyster card - that's not possible with CPCs
(just possibly might be with a future generation of them).

Irrelevant, because the sums for CPCs aren't done when the card is
swiped, they are done overnight when all the relevant information is to
hand.

RPIs do ask to see associated Railcards.

Good. Whether a paper, Oyster or CPC trip, I hope they would.
--
Roland Perry