In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

The other major issue which is not really being talked about is level
access to this new stock given the vast differences in stepping
heights and stepping distances at so many stations on the Central,
Picc and Bakerloo. There are quite serious ramifications for the
services Queens Park and north. What service no longer runs given the
differences between tube stock and main line stock given there's no
space to double the length of every platform to have different
profiles. I'm not saying this is beyond resolution but it is going to
involve a lot of work and potentially a lot of disruption.

Never mind Queens Park and north. What about Rayner's Lane to Uxbridge?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 06:44:29 -0500,
wrote:

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

The other major issue which is not really being talked about is level
access to this new stock given the vast differences in stepping
heights and stepping distances at so many stations on the Central,
Picc and Bakerloo. There are quite serious ramifications for the
services Queens Park and north. What service no longer runs given the
differences between tube stock and main line stock given there's no
space to double the length of every platform to have different
profiles. I'm not saying this is beyond resolution but it is going to
involve a lot of work and potentially a lot of disruption.

Never mind Queens Park and north. What about Rayner's Lane to Uxbridge?

Presumably, and unavoidably, at least one, if not both, of the train
types have a step, just as now. Also true at Ealing Common and for
some trains, at Acton Town. I don't think the other option of the
Jubilee Line taking over the Uxbridge branch is still being
considered.

So the 92 stock are being got rid of already, including the W&C ones
which have seen relatively little use? Apart from the time the engines
fall off, have they generally been considered a disaster? As a
passenger, I liked them a lot.

Basil Jet wrote:
So the 92 stock are being got rid of already, including the W&C ones
which have seen relatively little use? Apart from the time the engines
fall off, have they generally been considered a disaster? As a passenger,
I liked them a lot.

I believe they've never been particularly reliable, and like the D stock,
they'll go early in the interests of having a standard design across
multiple lines. But they'll probably complete well over 30 years service
before retiring, so it's not a dramatically shortened life.

The ironic thing is that the Northern line needs extra trains in the same
time-scale, but I don't suppose there would be any chance of using
redundant 92TS on that line alongside the slightly newer 95TS. Had those
lines shared a standard design, it would have been feasible.

On 11.10.14 10:45, Recliner wrote:
Neil Williams wrote:
On 2014-10-10 22:38:13 +0000, Recliner said:

The DLR attendant is usually not at the front, and is often not even in the
front car. These trains are just as automated as any future Tube train

Except the doors. I think that will be a big sticking point, as British
passengers don't have any discipline and will block, lean on and hold
open doors with impunity.

I think that will, the unions aside, be by far the biggest issue.

The new automated trains will still have an attendant, who may be in charge
of closing the doors. Or they may be controlled remotely -- if the
driver/guard/attendant currently uses video screens to check them, why
couldn't someone in a remote control room do the same?

Incidentally, I remember the fuss the unions made when the Tube moved to
OPO, even without ATO -- they made fearsome forecasts of the inevitable
carnage that would follow. In fact, it's worked very well.

It would also be interesting to have a front view of the way ahead,
especially on the Piccadilly.

The list of pilotless trains in Europe grows. Paris has converted its
Line 1 over to pilotless, and was to do same with Line 4, not to mention
Line 14. Nurenburg and Madrid have them, as do Brescia and Copenhagen.

I'm sure this list is by no means exhaustive.

BTW, both Brescia and Copenhagen look like off-the-shelf, turnkey
projects.

On 11.10.14 15:44, wrote:
On 11.10.14 10:45, Recliner wrote:
Neil Williams wrote:
On 2014-10-10 22:38:13 +0000, Recliner said:

The DLR attendant is usually not at the front, and is often not even
in the
front car. These trains are just as automated as any future Tube train

Except the doors. I think that will be a big sticking point, as British
passengers don't have any discipline and will block, lean on and hold
open doors with impunity.

I think that will, the unions aside, be by far the biggest issue.

The new automated trains will still have an attendant, who may be in
charge
of closing the doors. Or they may be controlled remotely -- if the
driver/guard/attendant currently uses video screens to check them, why
couldn't someone in a remote control room do the same?

Incidentally, I remember the fuss the unions made when the Tube moved to
OPO, even without ATO -- they made fearsome forecasts of the inevitable
carnage that would follow. In fact, it's worked very well.

It would also be interesting to have a front view of the way ahead,
especially on the Piccadilly.

The list of pilotless trains in Europe grows. Paris has converted its
Line 1 over to pilotless, and was to do same with Line 4, not to mention
Line 14. Nurenburg and Madrid have them, as do Brescia and Copenhagen.

I'm sure this list is by no means exhaustive.

BTW, both Brescia and Copenhagen look like off-the-shelf, turnkey projects.

Did I read on this group, BTW, that the Glasgow Subway is also due to go
pilotless?

" wrote:
On 11.10.14 10:45, Recliner wrote:
Neil Williams wrote:
On 2014-10-10 22:38:13 +0000, Recliner said:

The DLR attendant is usually not at the front, and is often not even in the
front car. These trains are just as automated as any future Tube train

Except the doors. I think that will be a big sticking point, as British
passengers don't have any discipline and will block, lean on and hold
open doors with impunity.

I think that will, the unions aside, be by far the biggest issue.

The new automated trains will still have an attendant, who may be in charge
of closing the doors. Or they may be controlled remotely -- if the
driver/guard/attendant currently uses video screens to check them, why
couldn't someone in a remote control room do the same?

Incidentally, I remember the fuss the unions made when the Tube moved to
OPO, even without ATO -- they made fearsome forecasts of the inevitable
carnage that would follow. In fact, it's worked very well.

It would also be interesting to have a front view of the way ahead,
especially on the Piccadilly.

The list of pilotless trains in Europe grows. Paris has converted its
Line 1 over to pilotless, and was to do same with Line 4, not to mention
Line 14. Nurenburg and Madrid have them, as do Brescia and Copenhagen.

I'm sure this list is by no means exhaustive.

BTW, both Brescia and Copenhagen look like off-the-shelf, turnkey projects.

I think the first driverless train I travelled on (other than airport
shuttles and the DLR) was the Vancouver Skytrain, which has been running
since 1986: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SkyTrain_(Vancouver)

wrote in message ...
On 11.10.14 10:45, Recliner wrote:
Neil Williams wrote:
On 2014-10-10 22:38:13 +0000, Recliner said:

The DLR attendant is usually not at the front, and is often not even in
the
front car. These trains are just as automated as any future Tube train

Except the doors. I think that will be a big sticking point, as British
passengers don't have any discipline and will block, lean on and hold
open doors with impunity.

I think that will, the unions aside, be by far the biggest issue.

The new automated trains will still have an attendant, who may be in
charge
of closing the doors. Or they may be controlled remotely -- if the
driver/guard/attendant currently uses video screens to check them, why
couldn't someone in a remote control room do the same?

Incidentally, I remember the fuss the unions made when the Tube moved to
OPO, even without ATO -- they made fearsome forecasts of the inevitable
carnage that would follow. In fact, it's worked very well.

It would also be interesting to have a front view of the way ahead,
especially on the Piccadilly.

The list of pilotless trains in Europe grows. Paris has converted its Line
1 over to pilotless, and was to do same with Line 4, not to mention Line
14. Nurenburg and Madrid have them, as do Brescia and Copenhagen.

I'm sure this list is by no means exhaustive.

BTW, both Brescia and Copenhagen look like off-the-shelf, turnkey
projects.

I assume by that that you mean were built from scratch as a driverless
system?

However, the western leg of the Copenhagen network was created by converting
what was previously part of the s-tog network.

tim

On 2014\10\10 20:46, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 19:07:08 +0100, "tim....."
wrote:


I can't speak for anywhere else, but the open air stations in Copenhagen
don't have platform doors

and it's colder than here in the winter

I understood that Copenhagen had taken the decision to install them to
reduce delays from things ending up on the track and the auto
detection system stopping trains unncessarily. I agree that their
climate will provide a challenge to operating platform edge doors in
snowy / cold conditions but then they are more likely to be better
prepared than us to deal with such conditions.


I'm not sure I understand the issue. Why is snow a show-stopper for
PEDs? And would installing heating circuits in the ground for an inch or
so around the actual sweep of the door solve the problem?

Except the doors. I think that will be a big sticking point, as
British passengers don't have any discipline and will block, lean on
and hold open doors with impunity.

Are they really worse than the French? Driverless trains work fine in
Paris.