Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:44:04 on Fri, 31 Oct
2014, Neil Williams remarked:
I see even more FWD cars stuck.

Have you considered that that might be because there *are* more FWD
cars, as only premium cars these days are RWD? I see a
disproportionate number of RWD premium cars (Mercs, BMWs etc) stuck
compared with the general number of these on the road.

That's probably the fashion-accessory wide tyres rather than RWD as such.

I think it's both. FWD cars usually have close to 60% of the vehicle's
weight on the driving wheels; RWD, usually 50%. And powerful RWD cars do
usually have significantly wider tyres, designed for high speeds, not grip
in slippery or very wet conditions.

Roland Perry wrote:
In message -septemb
er.org, at 16:14:19 on Thu, 30 Oct 2014, Recliner remarked:


The unnecessarily wide tyres don't help.

That's the downfall of many a hot-hatch in the snow.

My car (not a hot hatch) came with 245/40R19 Pirelli P Zero tyres as
standard.

On 2014-10-31 10:53:50 +0000, Roland Perry said:

It's a sort of "minimum speed cruise control" using ABS. I'm sure it
helps the same sort of driver who invokes ABS on a 2WD car.

You might as well "invoke ABS" if you're wanting to stop quickly and
without loss of control - as it, unlike you, can control each wheel's
braking separately, it will do it better than you will. If you need an
emergency stop, foot hard on the brake, concentrate on steering and let
ABS do its thing, disconcerting though it may sometimes be.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

On 2014-10-31 10:55:03 +0000, Roland Perry said:

That's probably the fashion-accessory wide tyres rather than RWD as such.

That will certainly play a part.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 06:04:13PM +0000, Neil Williams wrote:

4WD of course does both, but it isn't viable to fit that to all cars,
nor is it necessary.

I beg to differ. I couldn't have got out of the car park at Glyndebourne
last week without it!

--
David Cantrell | London Perl Mongers Deputy Chief Heretic

You know you're getting old when you fancy the
teenager's parent and ignore the teenager
-- Paul M in uknot

David Cantrell wrote:
On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 06:04:13PM +0000, Neil Williams wrote:

4WD of course does both, but it isn't viable to fit that to all cars,
nor is it necessary.

I beg to differ. I couldn't have got out of the car park at Glyndebourne
last week without it!

Soft mud?

In message , at 11:33:19 on Fri, 31
Oct 2014, Neil Williams remarked:
It's a sort of "minimum speed cruise control" using ABS. I'm sure it
helps the same sort of driver who invokes ABS on a 2WD car.

You might as well "invoke ABS" if you're wanting to stop quickly and
without loss of control - as it, unlike you, can control each wheel's
braking separately, it will do it better than you will. If you need an
emergency stop, foot hard on the brake, concentrate on steering and let
ABS do its thing, disconcerting though it may sometimes be.

There are some conditions where I might indeed find myself in a pickle
where ABS is invoked, but it doesn't happen very often. Something like
once every five years.
--
Roland Perry

In message
-septemb
er.org, at 11:12:19 on Fri, 31 Oct 2014, Recliner
remarked:
I see even more FWD cars stuck.

Have you considered that that might be because there *are* more FWD
cars, as only premium cars these days are RWD? I see a
disproportionate number of RWD premium cars (Mercs, BMWs etc) stuck
compared with the general number of these on the road.

That's probably the fashion-accessory wide tyres rather than RWD as such.

I think it's both. FWD cars usually have close to 60% of the vehicle's
weight on the driving wheels; RWD, usually 50%. And powerful RWD cars do
usually have significantly wider tyres, designed for high speeds, not grip
in slippery or very wet conditions.

I would hope modern tyres were designed for the wet.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message -septem
ber.org, at 10:47:48 on Fri, 31 Oct 2014, Recliner remarked:
As such vehicles probably have ABS, I don't see how ASC is an
improvement as far as braking is concerned.

The statement wasn't in favour of ASC, it was comparing the braking of a
large 4x4 to a normal car, it's not as much different as some new drivers of 4x4s think.

The other issue is that a 4WD vehicle doesn't need to brake at every
corner, like a pathologically understeering FWD car might, so
powering-round can be just as good a way to avoid the ditch.

True, however again these Chelsea tractor drivers don't have the skills to realise that.

I wonder if HDC helps?

It's a sort of "minimum speed cruise control" using ABS. I'm sure it
helps the same sort of driver who invokes ABS on a 2WD car.

It's much more than just ABS, as it also uses engine braking.

Roland Perry wrote:
In message -septemb
er.org, at 11:12:19 on Fri, 31 Oct 2014, Recliner remarked:
I see even more FWD cars stuck.

Have you considered that that might be because there *are* more FWD
cars, as only premium cars these days are RWD? I see a
disproportionate number of RWD premium cars (Mercs, BMWs etc) stuck
compared with the general number of these on the road.

That's probably the fashion-accessory wide tyres rather than RWD as such.

I think it's both. FWD cars usually have close to 60% of the vehicle's
weight on the driving wheels; RWD, usually 50%. And powerful RWD cars do
usually have significantly wider tyres, designed for high speeds, not grip
in slippery or very wet conditions.

I would hope modern tyres were designed for the wet.

All tyre designs are compromises. They have to balance grip, wear
resistance, temperatures at high speeds, etc. A grippy all-weather tyre
won't last as long as one designed for long life, and neither will perform
well at 150mph. The most extreme example is slick racing tyres, which are
wonderfully grippy and perform well at high speeds, but instantly aquaplane
with even gentle rain; wet weather racing tyres are OK in moderate rain,
but fall apart at high speeds in the dry. Road tyres are less extreme in
their characteristics, but are still tuned for different conditions.