On Sunday, 29 March 2015 12:14:37 UTC+1, Clank wrote:
Clive Page wrote:
I don't quite know why those in these long queues don't try to use the
ticket machines (but they often have long queues as well) but I suppose
that if I were just arriving in a foreign city for the first time I might
reckon it easier to get the right ticket from a human than from a
machine, given the complexity of the system. Some of these newly
arriving visitors might even, like me, have had unpleasant experiences in
using ticket machines in foreign cities before.

Personally, whenever I arrive in a foreign city for the first time I always
use ticket machines instead of windows because (a) there's a much higher
chance the machine will speak my language and (b) even if it doesn't, it's
unlikely to make fun of my accent.

I appreciate anecdote doesn't make data though .

Not at Schipol or Amsterdam Central etc. - all the ticket machines throughout the Nederlands refuse to 'speak' English. And now with the new chip-cards you have to pay a premium for personal service at a ticket office window AND for the cost of the card. Rip-off - worse than in the UK. CJB

On Sunday, 29 March 2015 16:46:38 UTC+1, wrote:
On Sunday, 29 March 2015 12:50:39 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 11:27:26 +0100, Clive Page
wrote:

TfL recently sent me an email message to tell me that:

quote
I am writing to let you know that after Easter, we will be carrying out
improvement work at King's Cross St. Pancras Tube station; this is part
of our plans to modernise the Tube. As a result, we are making changes
to the ticket hall and the ticket windows will be permanently closed.
end quote

Well we all knew of TfL's desire to do away with all these pesky ticket
windows, but on Saturday I happened to walk past the western ticket
office at King's Cross twice. Both in the morning and in late afternoon
the queue for the ticket windows was so full that it didn't all fit in
the zig-zag barriers, there must have been 30 or 40 people waiting each
time. The queue noticeably lengthens soon after a train from Paris or
Brussels arrives.

I don't quite know why those in these long queues don't try to use the
ticket machines (but they often have long queues as well) but I suppose
that if I were just arriving in a foreign city for the first time I
might reckon it easier to get the right ticket from a human than from a
machine, given the complexity of the system. Some of these newly
arriving visitors might even, like me, have had unpleasant experiences
in using ticket machines in foreign cities before.

Whatever the reason, there are going to be a lot of unhappy customers
there after Easter. And TfL shows no signs at all of opening the
refurbished enquiry office near the western ticket hall which was closed
a few months ago.

I don't know all the ins and outs, not living in London, but I
understood the plan was to redeploy staff to the passenger areas to
assist passengers. I assume there will be staff to assist visitors
and others in operating the machines.

Since there are almost always non-trivial queues at every King's Cross ticket machine how is that going to work, then?

Last time I had to wait for one of the party to use a King's Cross ticket office it was because he needed to buy a priv ticket. How will that work without a ticket office?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

AND when I go to Luton (or places north of the boundary of zone 6 - the outermost zone covered by my Freedom Pass) I need to purchase a/ an extension from zone 6, and b/ with a Senior Railcard discount. NO machine offers these. I usually get mine from the Blackfriars ThamesLink ticket office without problems. The staff at the ThamesLink ticket office at St.Pancras are useless and frequently sell me the wrong tickets then have to cancel them, and then re-issue what I requested in the first place. Frankly a ticket machine would be better - except they don't offer the extension tickets I need. CJB

On 29/03/2015 12:13, Clank wrote:
Personally, whenever I arrive in a foreign city for the first time I always
use ticket machines instead of windows because (a) there's a much higher
chance the machine will speak my language and (b) even if it doesn't, it's
unlikely to make fun of my accent.

I appreciate anecdote doesn't make data though .

Well so do I. But in two cities in the last few years (Paris and
Rotterdam) I've found machines which won't take British credit or debit
cards and I had to resort to feeding in literally dozens of small coins
to buy my tickets. Fortunately I had just enough, but many tourists
will have had experiences like this and decide a human is more helpful
than a machine.

But in the case of King's Cross, they take some trouble on Eurostar to
push sales of Oyster cards, and TfL also encourage their use by having
cash fares which are many times that of the Oyster fare. So I'm baffled
as to why the queues are so long, but it's a fact that they are.

--
Clive Page

On 2015-03-29 21:47:54 +0000, CJB said:

Not at Schipol or Amsterdam Central etc. - all the ticket machines
throughout the Nederlands refuse to 'speak' English.

You what? They have an English option. But even if they didn't, they
are not at all hard to navigate.

And now with the new chip-cards you have to pay a premium for personal
service at a ticket office window AND for the cost of the card. Rip-off
- worse than in the UK. CJB

I am in favour of fees to use the ticket office, it will keep it
available for those occasions when I want something the machine won't
do, and so there won't be a queue of half an hour of people buying a
simple outboundary Travelcard to London which they could easily have
done at the machine.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

On Sunday, 29 March 2015 23:20:27 UTC+1, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 08:46:37 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Last time I had to wait for one of the party to use a King's Cross ticket office it was because he needed to buy a priv ticket. How will that work without a ticket office?

Easy - TfL scrapped the sale of priv rate paper tickets for travel on
the tube in Jan 2015. You have to buy a ticket from a NR ticket
office or apply for a priv rate Oyster PAYG card.

If the person in your party is not aware of this then I suggest they
are pointed in the direction of ATOC Staff Travel (assuming they are a
(former) BR / TOC employee.

To be fair this was before January this year. He's a BR pensioner. I'll ask him next time I see him. Having to queue at Kings Cross is a complete PITA so I expect he'll be grateful.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , at 00:27:08 on Mon, 30
Mar 2015, Neil Williams remarked:

Not at Schipol or Amsterdam Central etc. - all the ticket machines
throughout the Nederlands refuse to 'speak' English.

You what? They have an English option. But even if they didn't, they
are not at all hard to navigate.

One of the things I liked about them was a poster on the front giving an
example of how to navigate the UI - and the example was a ticket from
Centraal to Schiphol.

On the other hand, I never did get the hang of the ticket machines on
the Metro in Lisbon, which didn't have an "English" option.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at
14:55:41 on Sun, 29 Mar 2015, CJB remarked:
The staff at the ThamesLink ticket office at St.Pancras are useless and frequently sell me the wrong tickets then have to cancel them, and then
re-issue what I requested in the first place. Frankly a ticket machine would be better - except they don't offer the extension tickets I need.

I had a problem with that office. I needed a ticket that the machines
didn't sell: because it was for "tomorrow" and "not from here". I was
doing a triangular trip flying out of Gatwick and returning to Luton,
and thought I'd buy the ticket for the once-upon-a-time free shuttle bus
to the MML station in advance.

Despite asking for what I wanted several times, the chap simply refused
to comprehend. Eventually he issued me with a ticket from Parkway to the
Airport. I gave up.
--
Roland Perry

Clive Page wrote in
:


But in the case of King's Cross, they take some trouble on Eurostar to
push sales of Oyster cards, and TfL also encourage their use by having
cash fares which are many times that of the Oyster fare. So I'm
baffled as to why the queues are so long, but it's a fact that they
are.


Yes, Eurostar push Oyster but not hard enough. I think the problem is that
it takes a lot of time to explain the various options to people - many
other systems have just two choices (single or travelcard, and frequently
no messing around with zones either).

What's needed is a flyer, available in multiple languages, explaining the
basics of the system:

1) are you travelling within London?
2) do you have a contactless payment card? or
3) get an Oyster card and put some momey on it
4) touch in on buses, touch in and out on trains.

(You can begin to see the problems as you then have to explain "London",
how much money you need to put on the ticket etc etc.)

David

CJB wrote:
AND when I go to Luton (or places north of the boundary of zone 6 -
the outermost zone covered by my Freedom Pass) I need to purchase a/
an extension from zone 6, and b/ with a Senior Railcard discount. NO
machine offers these. I usually get mine from the Blackfriars
ThamesLink ticket office without problems. The staff at the
ThamesLink ticket office at St.Pancras are useless and frequently
sell me the wrong tickets then have to cancel them, and then re-issue
what I requested in the first place. Frankly a ticket machine would
be better - except they don't offer the extension tickets I need. CJB

I routinely buy exactly such tickets from the machines at Overghround
stations (including the Senior Railcard discount). Or, at least, I
think I do. Am I dreaming? If so, my partner is too (unless I am
dreaming her too).
--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

David Jackman pleasereplytogroup wrote:
Clive Page wrote in
:


But in the case of King's Cross, they take some trouble on Eurostar to
push sales of Oyster cards, and TfL also encourage their use by having
cash fares which are many times that of the Oyster fare. So I'm
baffled as to why the queues are so long, but it's a fact that they
are.

I always assume that things being sold on trains, aeroplanes and in baggage
reclaim halls are sold to a captive audience at some massive markup. After
all Ryanair offering me a transfer to central London are not doing it out of
the goodness of their heart, and I'd probably end up with an First Anytime
Return on Terravision to Irkutsk Broadway when actually I could get a
Network Card super-offpeak to Liverpool St instead.

What's needed is a flyer, available in multiple languages, explaining the
basics of the system:

1) are you travelling within London?
2) do you have a contactless payment card? or
3) get an Oyster card and put some momey on it
4) touch in on buses, touch in and out on trains.

(You can begin to see the problems as you then have to explain "London",
how much money you need to put on the ticket etc etc.)

Is my "Bank of China" card a contactless payment card? What about
American Express?
Can I put Euro on my Oyster card?
What happens when I run out of money?
Does my toddler need a card? At what age do they pay full fare?
What does 'peak' mean?

To name just a few. I can see why even British people go straight to the
ticket office.

Theo