wrote:

In article , (Mizter
T) wrote:

On 19/05/2015 21:17, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 20:49:39 on Tue, 19
May 2015, Mizter T remarked:
Physical maps take a while to print, distribute and place;
online maps can be replaced just in time.

So that's 4am on the 31st? 8am would be "just too late" for
people heading to work that morning and wanting to check the
map.

Oh Mr P, you do like to pick a fight where there isn't one.

None of the services are changing, just the operators.

No timetable changes, or fares?

Given the summer timetable has just commenced (17 May), there won't
be any timetable changes.

Fares changes - yes, Brentwood is moving into zone 9, and
presumably the TfL-controlled lines will start charging the TfL
rate rather than the NR rate for PAYG/contactless fares, meaning
the red bits on the West Anglia and GEML on this map will turn
green:



http://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms...arrifs-nationa
l-rail.pdf

Not the Lea valley line, surely?

I think if you move one line onto the TfL fare scale, you have to move
them all as there is no way to tell which line a journey from
Cheshunt/Broxbourne to Liverpool Street has used.

Peter Smyth

In message , at 00:39:30 on
Tue, 19 May 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:
Picked up a copy of the new "London's Rail & Tube services" map- the one
with London & the South East rail services on the reverse - dunno why
they ditched the nifty 'London Connections' name but whatever, I suppose
the newer name is more descriptive and perhaps less cryptic.

Where did you pick it up from?

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/trans...-of-transport-
for-londons-newlook-rail-network-map-10262826.html

for a story about the new map.
--
Roland Perry

Do the changes mean I will be able to use my Freedom Pass out to Cheshunt and Brentwood?

Peter

Do the changes mean I will be able to use my Freedom Pass out to Cheshunt and Brentwood?

Peter

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Tue, 19 May 2015 19:12:57 -0500,
wrote:

In article

-september.
org, (Recliner) wrote:

wrote:
In article


rg, (Recliner) wrote:

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
00:39:30 on Tue, 19 May 2015, Paul Corfield
remarked:
Picked up a copy of the new "London's Rail & Tube services" map-
the one with London & the South East rail services on the
reverse - dunno why they ditched the nifty 'London Connections'
name but whatever, I suppose the newer name is more descriptive
and perhaps less cryptic.

Where did you pick it up from?

Anyway, it's valid from 31 May 2015,

Online it's still the December 2014 edition.

Presumably they only put the new one online once it's valid?

Well, they changed the Victoria Line car line diagrams to show
interchange with London Overground at 3 stations late last month.

Physical maps take a while to print, distribute and place; online maps
can be replaced just in time.

No new maps were printed. These are overlay stickers which could easily
have been applied in depot nearer the time.

Sorry but the scale of the restickering task is enormous. I used to be
responsible for ordering all of these changes and the work has to fit
in alongside all the other work being done on the train fleets.

There are thousands of line diagrams, maps, fixed signs, announcements
and displays to be amended. You also need to bear in mind the high
utilisation level of 09 stock given the intensity of service now
operated daily on the Vic Line. At least the rolling stock there has
a modern DVA / VID system meaning the revised announcements and in car
displays will probably just flip over on the day. Other fleets are an
enormous pain to change.

It's hardly the end of the world if some stickers go up a fortnight
early. Better to be a bit early than weeks late.

I would agree if the fortnight was not more like 6 weeks.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Thursday, May 21, 2015 at 1:16:38 PM UTC+1, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Thu, 21 May 2015 00:42:24 -0700 (PDT), peter
wrote:

Do the changes mean I will be able to use my Freedom Pass out to Cheshunt and Brentwood?

TfL have now issued a press release about the revised fares. My
reading of it is that the 60+ and Freedom Pass become available on the
transferred services all day. However this ONLY applies in respect of
LOROL and TfL Rail operated services.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media...ses/2015/fares


One other interesting change is the adoption of the TfL PAYG farescale
for journeys on the T Hale line even though services there are
operated by Greater Anglia.

--
Paul C

Looks like it:

"All TfL concessions and discounts that currently apply to London Underground, the Docklands Light Railway, and London Overground will apply on the rail services transferring to TfL. This will include:

Free travel for under 11s accompanied by an adult
Lower ZIP photocard fares for under 16s
Free travel for customers with a 60+ London Oyster photocard, Freedom Pass or Veterans Oyster photocard"

Thanks for digging this out.

Peter

On 20/05/2015 23:42, Peter Smyth wrote:

wrote:

In article ,
(Mizter T) wrote:
[...]
Fares changes - yes, Brentwood is moving into zone 9, and
presumably the TfL-controlled lines will start charging the TfL
rate rather than the NR rate for PAYG/contactless fares, meaning
the red bits on the West Anglia and GEML on this map will turn
green:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/pay-as-you-go-tarrifs-national-rail.pdf

Not the Lea valley line, surely?

I think if you move one line onto the TfL fare scale, you have to move
them all as there is no way to tell which line a journey from
Cheshunt/Broxbourne to Liverpool Street has used.

Yes, of course - it's obvious once you think about it!

I see that Paul C has posted a link to a TfL release states the Lea
Valley line will move across to the TfL fare scale as well, which is the
simplest solution to this issue (apart from introducing a unified fare
scale... don't hold your breath!). I guess there's some sort of
commercial agreement underlying this between TfL and the franchisee (AGA).

On 18/05/2015 21:38, Mizter T wrote:
Picked up a copy of the new "London's Rail & Tube services" map [...]

The new Tube map incorporating the new parts of LO and also TfL Rail can
be seen in PDF format via this link:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/tube-map-may-2015.pdf

It's also now shown on the Tube map page on the TfL site here...
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/maps/track/tube
....though the linked PDF (left hand side) still brings up the
current/old map.

On 21/05/2015 13:16, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Thu, 21 May 2015 00:42:24 -0700 (PDT), peter
wrote:

Do the changes mean I will be able to use my Freedom Pass out to Cheshunt and Brentwood?

TfL have now issued a press release about the revised fares. My
reading of it is that the 60+ and Freedom Pass become available on the
transferred services all day. However this ONLY applies in respect of
LOROL and TfL Rail operated services.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media...ses/2015/fares


One other interesting change is the adoption of the TfL PAYG farescale
for journeys on the T Hale line even though services there are
operated by Greater Anglia.


This bit of the press release is interesting...

---quote---
Some fares will come down but will remain at a level consistent with
National Rail to ensure the Crossrail Sponsors' Agreement and the
Government's fare policy requirements are adhered to. For example, the
pay as you go peak fare from Brentwood to Zone 1 will come down by £1.50
to £8.20 and the off-peak fare by £2.30 to £5.30 - significantly lower
than the current fares but higher than the standard Zone 1-9 Tube fare.
---/quote---


So, Brentwood will be in zone 9, but my (quite possibly incorrect)
reading of the situation is that it'll have more expensive *single*
fares than the other zone 9 stations (a category that only consists of
Chesham and Amersham) - however, the zone 1-9 caps and Travelcard prices
will be the same.


Also under the notes to editors is a clear and unambiguous statement
regarding who will set what fares from (or indeed to) Shenfield station:

---quote---
Shenfield

* Although the train services transferring to TfL Rail in May 2015
terminate at Shenfield, the station will continue to be served primarily
by fast main line services. Abellio Greater Anglia will continue to
manage the station and set most fares, including the pay as you go fares
from Shenfield to Zone 1 and beyond, and all through fares to the rest
of the National Rail network in the same way they do today.

* All non-Zone 1 fares from Shenfield to the rest of the TfL rail
network will be set by TfL; Abellio Greater Anglia will no longer set
fares to east London including Docklands and Stratford.

* Prices will not change for any single or return paper ticket.
---/quote---

Much like - if not the same as - the situation at Watford Junction with
London Midland then.

In article , (Mizter T) wrote:

On 20/05/2015 23:42, Peter Smyth wrote:

wrote:

In article ,
(Mizter T) wrote:
[...]
Fares changes - yes, Brentwood is moving into zone 9, and
presumably the TfL-controlled lines will start charging the TfL
rate rather than the NR rate for PAYG/contactless fares, meaning
the red bits on the West Anglia and GEML on this map will turn
green:




http://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms...arrifs-nationa
l-rail.pdf

Not the Lea valley line, surely?

I think if you move one line onto the TfL fare scale, you have to move
them all as there is no way to tell which line a journey from
Cheshunt/Broxbourne to Liverpool Street has used.

Yes, of course - it's obvious once you think about it!

I see that Paul C has posted a link to a TfL release states the Lea
Valley line will move across to the TfL fare scale as well, which is
the simplest solution to this issue (apart from introducing a unified
fare scale... don't hold your breath!). I guess there's some sort of
commercial agreement underlying this between TfL and the franchisee
(AGA).

Will AGA be left with any routes of its own in Greater London? I can't think
of any.

--
Colin Rosenstiel