Someone Somewhere wrote:
On 31/05/2015 10:41, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sat, 30 May 2015 11:51:18 +0100, Someone Somewhere
wrote:

On 30/05/2015 00:06, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 29 May 2015 19:33:54 +0100, "
wrote:

Will TfL also operate the Stansted Express, BTW, or will Abelia continue
to hold that concession?

There is zero logic in TfL having any involvement in express services
to Stansted.


It may also bring the prices down....

It would not do so because TfL are now tied into a process of
requiring DfT consent to changing fares on NR routes that are devolved
to TfL. They are not permitted to undercut parallel TOC services. This
is all set out in a recent TfL Fares Advice paper to the Mayor. There
are also similar provisions in the Crossrail Agreement but the DfT
have carefully ensured those clauses are redacted in the publicly
available version of the agreement. I only know they apply to
Crossrail because what TfL said in the Fares Advice Paper. Anyone
expecting a cheap fares bonanza if TfL take over their rail services
is going to be disappointed.

Soooo.... does that imply that Crossrail fares to e.g. Heathrow are going
to be set at a rail rate (presumably Connect rather than Express) rather
than at Tube rate, ie the Piccadilly line?

Yes, I think so. The Heathrow tunnel is owned by HAL, who want to make sure
that HEx isn't undercut too much, particularly as Crossrail will also have
4tph, like HEx. Crossrail will be a bit slower, and the trains less swish,
but with the same frequency, and a much more useful range of destinations,
the majority of pax are likely to prefer it.

I just hope the official HEx ticket touts don't steer too many people on to
the more expensive, less useful service first. If they don't know to look
for it, visitors arriving at Heathrow T5 wouldn't see a Tube sign before
being sold a HEx ticket.

In message
-septem
ber.org, at 10:07:38 on Sun, 31 May 2015, Recliner
remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:41:19 on
Sun, 31 May 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:
Stansted is really
outside TfL's influence and, to be honest, I don't think TfL should be
faffing around trying to run longer distance trains. There's more than
enough for them to fix within Greater London.

Why is there talk about extending Oyster to Luton and Gatwick airports
then? It makes no sense to do those two and not Stansted.

It is, after all, "London's third airport", which Luton isn't.

Surely it's worth having it on Oyster, whoever runs the trains?

Yes, although AGA is only committed to rolling out ITSO (as far as I
know).

I think a lot more Londoners would use it if no separate tickets were
required. It would also be easier to sell pre-paid Visitor Oyster cards
if they already came loaded with enough credit to pay for the journey
to London plus some more travelling in London.

I agree, the visitor cards with not enough credit on to be useful are a
bit of a mystery.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 11:38:15 on
Sun, 31 May 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:
If you were HAL you would have wanted guarantees about the revenue due
to you so you could pay off the debt incurred in constructing the
tunnels into Heathrow. I believe the agreement runs to 2023 when the
debt should be clear. Goodness knows what happens then.

I suspect that Heathrow will come properly "into the Zones", but HEx
will be allowed to run trains through the core, at least as far as
docklands (or Stratford if that's a more logical place to reverse them).
--
Roland Perry

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
Someone Somewhere wrote:
On 31/05/2015 10:41, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sat, 30 May 2015 11:51:18 +0100, Someone Somewhere
wrote:

On 30/05/2015 00:06, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 29 May 2015 19:33:54 +0100, "
wrote:

Will TfL also operate the Stansted Express, BTW, or will Abelia
continue
to hold that concession?

There is zero logic in TfL having any involvement in express services
to Stansted.


It may also bring the prices down....

It would not do so because TfL are now tied into a process of
requiring DfT consent to changing fares on NR routes that are devolved
to TfL. They are not permitted to undercut parallel TOC services. This
is all set out in a recent TfL Fares Advice paper to the Mayor. There
are also similar provisions in the Crossrail Agreement but the DfT
have carefully ensured those clauses are redacted in the publicly
available version of the agreement. I only know they apply to
Crossrail because what TfL said in the Fares Advice Paper. Anyone
expecting a cheap fares bonanza if TfL take over their rail services
is going to be disappointed.

Soooo.... does that imply that Crossrail fares to e.g. Heathrow are going
to be set at a rail rate (presumably Connect rather than Express) rather
than at Tube rate, ie the Piccadilly line?

Yes, I think so. The Heathrow tunnel is owned by HAL, who want to make
sure
that HEx isn't undercut too much, particularly as Crossrail will also have
4tph, like HEx. Crossrail will be a bit slower, and the trains less swish,
but with the same frequency, and a much more useful range of destinations,
the majority of pax are likely to prefer it.

I just hope the official HEx ticket touts don't steer too many people on
to
the more expensive, less useful service first.

The Viennese manage this quite successfully, perhaps they should send all
their staff there for lessons :-)

tim

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at 11:38:15
on Sun, 31 May 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:
If you were HAL you would have wanted guarantees about the revenue due
to you so you could pay off the debt incurred in constructing the
tunnels into Heathrow. I believe the agreement runs to 2023 when the
debt should be clear. Goodness knows what happens then.

I suspect that Heathrow will come properly "into the Zones", but HEx
will be allowed to run trains through the core, at least as far as
docklands (or Stratford if that's a more logical place to reverse
them).

Will the Crossrail layout cater for reversals at Stratford?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message

-september.
org, at 10:07:38 on Sun, 31 May 2015, Recliner
remarked:

Surely it's worth having it on Oyster, whoever runs the trains?

Yes, although AGA is only committed to rolling out ITSO (as far as I
know).

Are they even committed to that in this franchise? AFAIK only GTR are
committed to ITSO at Cambridge.

I think a lot more Londoners would use it if no separate tickets were
required. It would also be easier to sell pre-paid Visitor Oyster cards
if they already came loaded with enough credit to pay for the journey
to London plus some more travelling in London.

I agree, the visitor cards with not enough credit on to be useful are
a bit of a mystery.

Remind us how much credit is included?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 2015\05\31 17:13, wrote:
In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at 11:38:15
on Sun, 31 May 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:
If you were HAL you would have wanted guarantees about the revenue due
to you so you could pay off the debt incurred in constructing the
tunnels into Heathrow. I believe the agreement runs to 2023 when the
debt should be clear. Goodness knows what happens then.

I suspect that Heathrow will come properly "into the Zones", but HEx
will be allowed to run trains through the core, at least as far as
docklands (or Stratford if that's a more logical place to reverse
them).

Will the Crossrail layout cater for reversals at Stratford?

I've never heard any suggestion that HEx will extend past Paddington.
Every Crossrail map in years has shown service to T4, not T5.

wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message

-september.
org, at 10:07:38 on Sun, 31 May 2015, Recliner
remarked:

Surely it's worth having it on Oyster, whoever runs the trains?

Yes, although AGA is only committed to rolling out ITSO (as far as I
know).

Are they even committed to that in this franchise? AFAIK only GTR are
committed to ITSO at Cambridge.

I think a lot more Londoners would use it if no separate tickets were
required. It would also be easier to sell pre-paid Visitor Oyster cards
if they already came loaded with enough credit to pay for the journey
to London plus some more travelling in London.

I agree, the visitor cards with not enough credit on to be useful are
a bit of a mystery.

Remind us how much credit is included?

you chose an amount starting from 10.00

Of course that was decided before the decision was taken to accept Oyster at
Gatwick so seems more than enough

In message , at 11:13:01
on Sun, 31 May 2015, remarked:
Surely it's worth having it on Oyster, whoever runs the trains?

Yes, although AGA is only committed to rolling out ITSO (as far as I
know).

Are they even committed to that in this franchise? AFAIK only GTR are
committed to ITSO at Cambridge.

http://www.itso.org.uk/wp-content/up...s-Sep-2013.pdf

Map on page 2.

I think a lot more Londoners would use it if no separate tickets were
required. It would also be easier to sell pre-paid Visitor Oyster cards
if they already came loaded with enough credit to pay for the journey
to London plus some more travelling in London.

I agree, the visitor cards with not enough credit on to be useful are
a bit of a mystery.

Remind us how much credit is included?

£3 and no deposit, so enough to make one single journey, and top it up
when you want to make a seconds - which makes some sense because it
moves the queues away from the terminus stations.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 17:42:44 on Sun, 31 May
2015, Basil Jet remarked:
If you were HAL you would have wanted guarantees about the revenue due
to you so you could pay off the debt incurred in constructing the
tunnels into Heathrow. I believe the agreement runs to 2023 when the
debt should be clear. Goodness knows what happens then.

I suspect that Heathrow will come properly "into the Zones", but HEx
will be allowed to run trains through the core, at least as far as
docklands (or Stratford if that's a more logical place to reverse
them).

Will the Crossrail layout cater for reversals at Stratford?

I've never heard any suggestion that HEx will extend past Paddington.
Every Crossrail map in years has shown service to T4, not T5.

We aren't talking about Crossrail - this is HEx services after 2023.
--
Roland Perry