On Thu, Jul 09, 2015 at 04:54:23PM +0200, Jarle Hammen Knudsen wrote:

" night tubes will be stopping at stations that will have no minimum
staffing levels - which could mean just one member of staff ... "

At least the union has stopped telling lies about unstaffed stations.
Progress!

--
David Cantrell | Hero of the Information Age

Us Germans take our humour very seriously
-- German cultural attache talking to the Today Programme,
about the German supposed lack of a sense of humour, 29 Aug 2001

On Wednesday, July 8, 2015 at 5:36:23 PM UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/gene...-striking.html

At least with no trains the drivers are unable to assault passengers like they do every day by closing the doors on those still trying to get on or off. I'm not talking about the idiot passengers who try and get on / off trains at the very last minute. How many times have I seen a woman with a kid in a pushchair sandwiched between two closing doors? Quite a few. How many times have passengers been killed due to trapped clothing in the doors - quite a few. Remember the old lady killed as she was dragged down the platform at Hounslow a few years ago. And there have been other instances. Numerous complaints to management about drivers not checking the CCTV monitors, closing the doors, and moving off without notice, are always replied to in the vein of 'we have no problems with the issues you mention.' But then with drivers getting 60 grand and supervisors likely less than half that the drivers are well out of control. Their strike is one solely based upon greed. And of course its summer. SB

y wrote:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/gene...blog/11725850/
ow-well-off-are-Londons-tube-drivers-and-why-are-they-striking.html

"No one is fooled by the mayor's spin that this is primarily about
pay. There is big concern that in stations outside central London,
night tubes will be stopping at stations that will have no minimum
staffing levels - which could mean just one member of staff
dealing with the public coming home after a late night out. This
is a safety nightmare and clearly not good for these staff or the
public. […]"


http://www.jeremyforlabour.com/tube_...ayor_must_talk

How is that any different to what already happens when the last
tubes arrive at suburban stations at around 1am?

Or on the DLR.

LU won't understaff the stations because they know damn sure people
will probably just jump over the barriers if they think no one is
watching.

If the station was unstaffed the barriers would be open anyway.

Peter Smyth

No, I didn't read the linked article. I rarely follow links.

So, most other members of staff earn far less than train drivers. Why then is
all the attention on drivers' earnings and none on the £20,000 or so earned
by the unspecified "others? Is this that famous politics-of-envy I keep hearing
about?

In article , (Basil
Jet) wrote:

How is that any different to what already happens when the last
tubes arrive at suburban stations at around 1am?

Or even when main line trains arrive at unmanned stations at any
point.

I don't see how station staff can be assaulted at an unmanned
station.

I think the safety claim is not the staff, but the passengers...

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Paul Cummins wrote:
In article , (Basil
Jet) wrote:

How is that any different to what already happens when the last
tubes arrive at suburban stations at around 1am?

Or even when main line trains arrive at unmanned stations at any
point.

I don't see how station staff can be assaulted at an unmanned
station.

I think the safety claim is not the staff, but the passengers...

Why would they be any less safe than on the many night buses that run every
night, mainly without incident?

In any case, surely no-one believes that the unions actually care about
passenger safety? They're after more money for their members, that's all.
And if they do care about anyone's safety, it's their members', not the
customers'.

On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 21:14:05 +0200, Robin9
wrote:


'Recliner[_3_ Wrote:
;149299']Robin9 wrote:-
'Recliner[_3_ Wrote: -
;149283']http://tinyurl.com/nf6grll-

I heard that all LU workers were on strike, not just the train
drivers.
How much do the other members of staff earn?-

Perhaps you didn't actually read the linked article?

It said, "Tube drivers are also much better paid than some of their
other
colleagues who'll be joining them on strike. Station staff get around
£30,000, according to TfI, with others closer to £20,000, while
supervisors
earn around £40,000 - still markedly less than what tube drivers get."

No, I didn't read the linked article. I rarely follow links.

So, most other members of staff earn far less than train drivers. Why
then is
all the attention on drivers' earnings and none on the £20,000 or so
earned
by the unspecified "others? Is this that famous politics-of-envy I keep
hearing about?

People think Tube drivers are very overpaid for the jobs they do. They
don't think the other staff are. And yet it's most often the drivers
who go on strike.

Compare Tube drivers with bus drivers. By almost any measure, the
latter have a much more difficult job, and yet they earn much less.
Also, operating Tube trains is getting easier and easier, as the
trains get more automated, and yet that de-skilling hasn't resulted in
lower Tube driver pay.

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

If the day ever comes when the job genuinely is deskilled to
"pressing
a button" as so many dull people seem to believe it consists of
then a
genuine argument about paying peanuts to employ monkeys might be
warranted.

all I'm going to say is that I still can't master driving a train or tube,
after much more emulator practise than I needed to learn to fly a plane.

And that really can be reduced to "press a button"

--
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
Wasting Bandwidth since 1981
Please Help us dispose of unwanted virtual currency:
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Paul Cummins wrote:
In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

If the day ever comes when the job genuinely is deskilled to
"pressing
a button" as so many dull people seem to believe it consists of
then a
genuine argument about paying peanuts to employ monkeys might be
warranted.

all I'm going to say is that I still can't master driving a train or tube,
after much more emulator practise than I needed to learn to fly a plane.

And that really can be reduced to "press a button"

I see it takes about six months of training; not trivial, but a lot less
than a professional pilot.

From https://www.how2become.com/careers/l...-train-driver/

Becoming a London Underground train driver requires that you have numerous
qualifications. Most are preliminary qualifications prior to any specific
training regime required to drive a train. Here is a list of qualifications
that you will need to have.

First, you need to be at least 21 years of age to start training to be a
train driver with any entity other than London Underground. In addition,
you will need to have good GCSE grades to show that you have a good
standard of education. While there are really no formal education
requirements to enter this field, having A Level grades will appeal to the
organisation.

You will also need to present your formal application to the company and
then attend a formal training centre. Here, you will sit several aptitude
tests, which will assess your skills, knowledge and proficiency in many
different areas. You will also need to pass a physical examination, an
eyesight examination and drug tests.

In general, becoming a London Underground train driver will require that
you undergo 22 weeks of training. However, if you opt to train outside of
London Underground, you might have to sit through 48 weeks of training.
London Underground has some of the lowest training requirements in the
industry for potential drivers.

Your training will be multifaceted, and will cover hands-on driver training
with an instructor, driving theory and safety training. You will have to
complete a Personal Track Safety Certificate, as well as an NVQ Level 2 in
Rail Transport Operations (Driving) before your training is complete. You
will also need to be familiar with the rules and guidelines of working on
the railroad.

It isn't tube workers' fault that bus drivers are under-paid, and there is no
reason tube workers should take a pay cut in sympathy. It really does sound
like the politics-of-envy: ordinary working people daring to earn good money!
Outrageous!