http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/gene...-striking.html

On Wednesday, 8 July 2015 17:36:23 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/gene...-striking.html

They're paid massively better than many. But of course its also Wimbledon Final, and the sun is shining. CJB.

CJB wrote:
On Wednesday, 8 July 2015 17:36:23 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/gene...-striking.html

They're paid massively better than many. But of course its also Wimbledon
Final, and the sun is shining. CJB.

The finals aren't till the weekend.

I heard that all LU workers were on strike, not just the train drivers. How much
do the other members of staff earn?

Robin9 wrote:
'Recliner[_3_ Wrote:
;149283']http://tinyurl.com/nf6grll

I heard that all LU workers were on strike, not just the train drivers.
How much do the other members of staff earn?

Perhaps you didn't actually read the linked article?

It said, "Tube drivers are also much better paid than some of their other
colleagues who'll be joining them on strike. Station staff get around
£30,000, according to TfI, with others closer to £20,000, while supervisors
earn around £40,000 - still markedly less than what tube drivers get."

No, I didn't read the linked article. I rarely follow links.

So, most other members of staff earn far less than train drivers. Why then is
all the attention on drivers' earnings and none on the £20,000 or so earned
by the unspecified "others? Is this that famous politics-of-envy I keep hearing
about?

On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 21:14:05 +0200, Robin9
wrote:


'Recliner[_3_ Wrote:
;149299']Robin9 wrote:-
'Recliner[_3_ Wrote: -
;149283']http://tinyurl.com/nf6grll-

I heard that all LU workers were on strike, not just the train
drivers.
How much do the other members of staff earn?-

Perhaps you didn't actually read the linked article?

It said, "Tube drivers are also much better paid than some of their
other
colleagues who'll be joining them on strike. Station staff get around
£30,000, according to TfI, with others closer to £20,000, while
supervisors
earn around £40,000 - still markedly less than what tube drivers get."

No, I didn't read the linked article. I rarely follow links.

So, most other members of staff earn far less than train drivers. Why
then is
all the attention on drivers' earnings and none on the £20,000 or so
earned
by the unspecified "others? Is this that famous politics-of-envy I keep
hearing about?

People think Tube drivers are very overpaid for the jobs they do. They
don't think the other staff are. And yet it's most often the drivers
who go on strike.

Compare Tube drivers with bus drivers. By almost any measure, the
latter have a much more difficult job, and yet they earn much less.
Also, operating Tube trains is getting easier and easier, as the
trains get more automated, and yet that de-skilling hasn't resulted in
lower Tube driver pay.

It isn't tube workers' fault that bus drivers are under-paid, and there is no
reason tube workers should take a pay cut in sympathy. It really does sound
like the politics-of-envy: ordinary working people daring to earn good money!
Outrageous!

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

If the day ever comes when the job genuinely is deskilled to
"pressing
a button" as so many dull people seem to believe it consists of
then a
genuine argument about paying peanuts to employ monkeys might be
warranted.

all I'm going to say is that I still can't master driving a train or tube,
after much more emulator practise than I needed to learn to fly a plane.

And that really can be reduced to "press a button"

--
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
Wasting Bandwidth since 1981
Please Help us dispose of unwanted virtual currency:
Bitcoin: 1LzAJBqzoaEudhsZ14W7YrdYSmLZ5m1seZ

On Sat, 11 Jul 2015 13:52:25 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:

On Sat, 11 Jul 2015 11:22:48 +0100, Recliner
wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 21:14:05 +0200, Robin9
wrote:


'Recliner[_3_ Wrote:
;149299']Robin9 wrote:-
'Recliner[_3_ Wrote: -
;149283']http://tinyurl.com/nf6grll-

I heard that all LU workers were on strike, not just the train
drivers.
How much do the other members of staff earn?-

Perhaps you didn't actually read the linked article?

It said, "Tube drivers are also much better paid than some of their
other
colleagues who'll be joining them on strike. Station staff get around
£30,000, according to TfI, with others closer to £20,000, while
supervisors
earn around £40,000 - still markedly less than what tube drivers get."

No, I didn't read the linked article. I rarely follow links.

So, most other members of staff earn far less than train drivers. Why
then is
all the attention on drivers' earnings and none on the £20,000 or so
earned
by the unspecified "others? Is this that famous politics-of-envy I keep
hearing about?

People think Tube drivers are very overpaid for the jobs they do. They
don't think the other staff are. And yet it's most often the drivers
who go on strike.

No it isn't. It's station staff and people in specialised control
positions that the RMT have called out. Some RMT train drivers have
been called out but ASLEF rarely strikes. There have only been two
ASLEF disputes - Boxing Day payments and the current Night Tube - in
recent years. The Boxing Day issue is resolved. There are also line
specific disputes - again nearly always called by the RMT.

Yes, I know these days it's the RMT that's militant. In years gone by,
it was ASLEF rather than the NUR that tended to call the strikes.


Compare Tube drivers with bus drivers. By almost any measure, the
latter have a much more difficult job, and yet they earn much less.
Also, operating Tube trains is getting easier and easier, as the
trains get more automated, and yet that de-skilling hasn't resulted in
lower Tube driver pay.

However the formal job requirements haven't been deskilled have they?
Drivers have to learn to operate to a new set of operating procedures
and rules, still need to know the entire route but how it works under
degraded conditions with ATO kit and to still be able to drive the
trains. Care of passengers, fault management and detection on the
stock and safety & evacuation knowledge requirements haven't changed
one jot as far as I know.

When driving automatic trains manually, presumably they are driven
much more slowly than when in full automatic mode? Do the trains
still have protection?


If the day ever comes when the job genuinely is deskilled to "pressing
a button" as so many dull people seem to believe it consists of then a
genuine argument about paying peanuts to employ monkeys might be
warranted. I wonder if the travelling public would really be content
to have relatively poorly qualified staff looking after technically
complex assets in what will always be a confined environment
underground?

Lower paid, and often very young, cabin crew have similar
responsibilities on airliners, and it seems to work pretty well.
Planes no longer carry flight engineers, and the pilots seldom emerge
from the flight deck other than to visit the loo or the galley.

The cabin crew have to look after safety equipment, the doors, luggage
stowage, broken seats, screaming kids, medical and emergency
procedures, safety briefings, the entertainment system, etc on their
own, quite apart from heating up and delivering the food and drink. On
long haul flights, those responsibilities might last for up to 15
years (with rest breaks). They also have to monitor the flight deck,
visiting it regularly to ensure that the pilots aren't all asleep.
They need to be alert for possible hijackers, and stop passengers
clustering round the cockpit door. They also have to deal with drunks.