On 17/10/2015 18:38, wrote:
In article ,
(JNugent) wrote:

On 17/10/2015 01:37, wrote:
In article ,
(JNugent) wrote:

On 16/10/2015 23:05, wrote:
In article ,
(Roland Perry) wrote:

In message , at 11:41:37
on Fri, 16 Oct 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:

Haven't you been introduced to Mr R Perry, Honourable Member for all
things Nottingham, Ely and Cambridgeshire? :-))))

I can do urban transport in some detail in Geneva and Amsterdam too
(as well as London of course).

Never taken a private hire in Ely, so I have no idea if they have
meters or not. The cars in the rank at the station are [East Cambs]
Hackneys.

I should bloody well hope that any car on a rank is a licensed hackney
carriage as only they may ply for hire legally.

The answer to your earlier question is that some other major cities,
Birmingham to my personal knowledge and as also mentioned in a news
report today, Manchester and Sheffield, share with London the
inexplicable (to me) Luddite rule that bans meters in hire cars. What
possible justification can there be for this?

Eliminating any excuse for mistaking a pirate car for a taxi, of
course.

That is addressed by marking rules on vehicles, both hackneys and hire
cars. The position should be clear enough. They aren't unmarked like
Addison Lee cars in London are.

As you very well know, Addison Lee cars are far from unmarked.
Your giving them as an example is therefore mystifying.

They do not say anything like "Hire Car - Pre-booked only", do they?

And it would make no difference if they did bear such a sign, except to
perhaps make matters worse by emphasising the fact that vehicle may be
hired.

They look like this:

http://static1.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/1100-0/photos/1335217962-cyclists-hold-diein-outside-addison-lee-office--london_1172180.jpg

It may be the case that a small minority of people travelling in
London are unfamiliar with the iconic London Taxi and also don't
know that licensed minicabs have a yellow sticker on both front
and rear windscreens. However such people are extremely unlikely
to be sufficiently knowledgeable and sufficiently eagle-eyed to
notice the meter and make a decision accordingly.

I don't know why Tony Blair's government decreed that minicabs
in London were not allowed to have a meter in the car - probably
the usual blend of ignorance, incomprehension and prejudice - but
I can't believe it was to help people differentiate between taxis and
minicabs. Not even the Blair government was as dozy as that!

On 2015\10\17 10:02, Robin9 wrote:

However, any mentally competent person can tell
the difference between a London Hackney Cab and a minicab. The
idea that a meter - inside the vehicle, remember - is necessary to
enable people to differentiate is absurd.

What if the taxi and PH are both Mercedes "Vito"s?

In message , at 13:17:13 on Sun, 18 Oct
2015, Basil Jet remarked:

However, any mentally competent person can tell
the difference between a London Hackney Cab and a minicab. The
idea that a meter - inside the vehicle, remember - is necessary to
enable people to differentiate is absurd.

What if the taxi and PH are both Mercedes "Vito"s?

Something your Ely correspondent can comment on There are several
Vitos registered as Hackneys, and all sorts of regular saloon cars.
Indeed, I've yet to see an East Cambs Hackney that *didn't* look like a
private hire car from a distance, to "London eyes".
--
Roland Perry

You have a good point. There is of course a slight difference:
the taxi will have a small square white plate at the bottom of
the back doors while the minicab will have yellow stickers on the
windscreens.

I've been told by a taxi driver that the famous taxi vehicle is
unpleasant and liable to catch fire, and that consequently many
taxi drivers are eager to have a different vehicle. That they have
chosen the same vehicle many minicab drivers use is something
that never seems to arouse comment.

In article ,
(Robin9) wrote:

;151187']On 17/10/2015 10:02, Robin9 wrote:-

;151173 Wrote:-
In article ,
(JNugent) wrote:
-
On 16/10/2015 23:05, wrote:-
In article ,
(Roland Perry) wrote:
-
In message , at 11:41:37
on Fri, 16 Oct 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:

Haven't you been introduced to Mr R Perry, Honourable Member for all
things Nottingham, Ely and Cambridgeshire? :-))))

I can do urban transport in some detail in Geneva and Amsterdam too
(as well as London of course).

Never taken a private hire in Ely, so I have no idea if they have
meters or not. The cars in the rank at the station are [East Cambs]
Hackneys.-

I should bloody well hope that any car on a rank is a licensed
hackney carriage as only they may ply for hire legally.

The answer to your earlier question is that some other major cities,
Birmingham to my personal knowledge and as also mentioned in a news
report today, Manchester and Sheffield, share with London the
inexplicable (to me) Luddite rule that bans meters in hire cars.
What

possible justification can there be for this?-

Eliminating any excuse for mistaking a pirate car for a taxi, of
course.-

That is addressed by marking rules on vehicles, both hackneys and hire
cars. The position should be clear enough. They aren't unmarked like
Addison Lee cars in London are.-

Addison Lee vehicles are cleared marked on the back with the
company logo. However, any mentally competent person can tell
the difference between a London Hackney Cab and a minicab. The
idea that a meter - inside the vehicle, remember - is necessary to
enable people to differentiate is absurd.-

Not everyone using transport in London comes from London.

Not everyone using transport in London comes from a town or city
where the proper purpose-built taxi can be found and purpose-built
taxis are
fitted with a taximeter and a sign on the roof in order to
distinguish them from any other car on the road.


into believing that a London pirate car is somehow a "taxi".

There are even some people who will deny that obvious truth.

It may be the case that a small minority of people travelling in
London are unfamiliar with the iconic London Taxi and also don't
know that licensed minicabs have a yellow sticker on both front
and rear windscreens. However such people are extremely unlikely
to be sufficiently knowledgeable and sufficiently eagle-eyed to
notice the meter and make a decision accordingly.

I don't know why Tony Blair's government decreed that minicabs
in London were not allowed to have a meter in the car - probably
the usual blend of ignorance, incomprehension and prejudice - but
I can't believe it was to help people differentiate between taxis and

Was that decided in legislation or by the Mayor? In the rest of the country
which has had hire car legislation since 1976 it's up to the licensing
authority which is the local council in all cases, even where there is an
executive Mayor.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at 13:17:13 on Sun, 18 Oct
2015, Basil Jet remarked:

However, any mentally competent person can tell
the difference between a London Hackney Cab and a minicab. The
idea that a meter - inside the vehicle, remember - is necessary to
enable people to differentiate is absurd.

What if the taxi and PH are both Mercedes "Vito"s?

Something your Ely correspondent can comment on There are several
Vitos registered as Hackneys, and all sorts of regular saloon cars.
Indeed, I've yet to see an East Cambs Hackney that *didn't* look like
a private hire car from a distance, to "London eyes".

Whereas in Cambridge a significant proportion of those hackneys that have to
be accessible are London-type vehicles. The original licences retain a right
to have saloons though, in recognition that vans and London-type cabs are
not accessible to everyone.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 18/10/2015 20:33, Robin9 wrote:
'Basil Jet[_4_ Wrote:
;151204']On 2015\10\17 10:02, Robin9 wrote:-

However, any mentally competent person can tell
the difference between a London Hackney Cab and a minicab. The
idea that a meter - inside the vehicle, remember - is necessary to
enable people to differentiate is absurd.-

What if the taxi and PH are both Mercedes "Vito"s?

You have a good point. There is of course a slight difference:
the taxi will have a small square white plate at the bottom of
the back doors while the minicab will have yellow stickers on the
windscreens.

I've been told by a taxi driver that the famous taxi vehicle is
unpleasant and liable to catch fire, and that consequently many
taxi drivers are eager to have a different vehicle. That they have
chosen the same vehicle many minicab drivers use is something
that never seems to arouse comment.

Only vehicles of a type (ie, make/model) approved by the Public Carriage
office may be licensed as taxis in London.

That rather limits the range of different vehicles which may be "chosen"
by London taxi-proprietors.

Essentially, the choice is between the Carbodies (LTI) taxi, the
Mercedes model referred to above and a similar Peugeot. The PCO relaxed
the rules about the required 24' turning circle (between kerbs) in order
to allow the Merc and the Peugeot to be licensed. They would not have
passed that test.

In article ,
(JNugent) wrote:

Only vehicles of a type (ie, make/model) approved by the Public
Carriage office may be licensed as taxis in London.

That rather limits the range of different vehicles which may be
"chosen" by London taxi-proprietors.

Essentially, the choice is between the Carbodies (LTI) taxi, the
Mercedes model referred to above and a similar Peugeot. The PCO
relaxed the rules about the required 24' turning circle (between
kerbs) in order to allow the Merc and the Peugeot to be licensed.
They would not have passed that test.

I thought the Vito had to be a specially modified model with rear wheel
steering in order to pass the test? Or have they since got rid of the
requirement?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 19/10/2015 10:26, wrote:

(JNugent) wrote:

Only vehicles of a type (ie, make/model) approved by the Public
Carriage office may be licensed as taxis in London.
That rather limits the range of different vehicles which may be
"chosen" by London taxi-proprietors.
Essentially, the choice is between the Carbodies (LTI) taxi, the
Mercedes model referred to above and a similar Peugeot. The PCO
relaxed the rules about the required 24' turning circle (between
kerbs) in order to allow the Merc and the Peugeot to be licensed.
They would not have passed that test.

I thought the Vito had to be a specially modified model with rear wheel
steering in order to pass the test? Or have they since got rid of the
requirement?

There is a London cab driver (with a LTI TX model) living a few doors
away from me. I rely upon him for the information that the 24' (some say
25') turning circle requirement has been relaxed (to 28').

That is confirmed (to the extent that anything ever is) at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditions_of_Fitness